Richard Kelly
Hi,
I’m hoping the wider community can help me as I have hit a brick wall. My family never knew my grandfather, Richard Kelly born 1889 in Wandsworth, Surrey, England. I can see he was a pauper in a workhouse and he left there directly to the navy as a musician.
from there he married my Great Grandmother Elsie Mary Kelly in 1910 in devonport.
they had a son my grandfather Richard Henry Kelly born in India 1912 but his mother died not long after he was born. This the reason he was adopted to the Haynes Family.
from here I know nothing about him other than he looks like he remarried to a Rosa Rita McFarland in India 1926.
I believe he may have left the army and stayed in India as part of the policing of the railways.
i don’t know where he died or if he ever returned to England or who his family originate from and whom they were.
can anybody shed any light?
I’ve looked for over 20yrs but don’t have the experience or knowledge.
forever grateful
Anthony Haynes
Answers
-
@AnthonyHaynes6
From your description, this would appear to be the family.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/L1HC-53M
However, the Indian baptism record attached to Richard Henry Kelly lists his birth as 1922 rather than 1912.
First name(s)
Richard Henry
Last name
Kelly
Birth year
1922
Birth date
15 Apr 1922
Baptism year
1922
Baptism date
28 Apr 1922
Place
Madras, St Mary
Presidency
Madras
Country
India
Father's first name(s)
Richard
Father's last name
Kelly
Mother's first name(s)
Elsie
Archive reference
N-2-131
Folio
24
Catalogue description
Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Madras
Record set
British India Office Births & Baptisms
Category
Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory
Parish Baptisms
Collections from
Great Britain, UK None
And, a suggested marriage record for Richard and Elsie Mary is dated 16 February 1919. Richard Kelly's father is listed as Harry Kelly, deceased, and Elsie Mary's father is listed as William Henry Kelly.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-QKDH-T?lang=en&i=181&cc=1804330&groupId=1804330
6 -
There were a few duplicate profiles of Elsie, and some dubious connections for Richard. I've cleaned those up.
Often, that sort of work will help the hinting algorithm find more information.
4 -
This is amazing thank you.
Apologies I had written his date of birth as 1912 but ut was indeed 1922.
What I am really searching for is something tangible on Richard Kelly born 1889, who is parents were and where they lived. I have nothing concrete.
Also what happened to Richard Kelly, what and where did he end up and death record or grave location.
I really do appreciate all the help, my huge family really are in the dark
1 -
@AnthonyHaynes6
Yes, I understand that your interest is in Richard who was born about 1889. Getting all the facts attached to the profiles, as correctly as we can, may reveal other suggested records.4 -
There was only one Richard Kelly whose birth was registered in the Wandsworth Registration District around 1889 and the GRO index provides this detail:
Birth registered S 1889 Qtr Vol 01D Page 653 Mother's maiden name MANKLOW
He appears to have had four sisters born in the Wandsworth area (mother MANKLOW);
Clara Louisa 1883, Mary Ann Kate 1885, Lily Bertha 1887 and Rose 1892. (The first two appear to have died in infancy.)
However, the only marriage record I could find (at FreeBMD) that includes a KELLY and MANKLOW under the same reference, names JAMES Kelly (not HENRY) and Bertha Manklow. The marriage was registered at Chelsea in 1883 and the record includes two other individuals, so that (in this Instance) Bertha Manklow could have possibly married the other male in the record: William George S Dawson.
I haven't had time to go further tonight (very late here in the U.K.) but I'll take a further look tomorrow for any 1891 census records that might group any of these individuals together - although you do say Richard was adopted "into the HAYNES family".
Nothing positive so far, but worth a further look.
3 -
So far, all I can confirm is that Richard's mother does indeed appear to have been Bertha MANKELOW, who was born at Ightham, Kent in 1863. Her Family Tree profile is KL6Y-7X1. There are a number of surname variants attached to the family: Bertha alone has at least three: MANKELOW at her birth registration, MENKILOW at her baptism and MANKLOW at her marriage. You will find details of her parents and siblings by viewing the details at KL6Y-7X1. Her sister Clara married at Battersea (in the Wandsworth area) in 1889.
I have been unable to find her death and there are doubts about the father of Robert Kelly's (senior) name: it appears to have been JAMES, not the HARRY shown on his marriage certificate: his stepfather was not HARRY HAYNES by any chance?
If you are sure that the Richard Kelly born 1889 Wandsworth is your man, it might be worth applying for a digital copy of his birth certificate from the GRO (they only cost £3), which should confirm his father's name, etc.
Naturally, KELLY is quite a difficult name to trace: BERTHA slightly more unusual, though I can't identify a death for her, but James or Harry would be rather more difficult to follow through. However, I've drawn a blank at finding any family members in the 1891 census.
The only "finds" so far are for the Rose Kelly, age 8, born Wandsworth, who is found at a convalescent home at Sandgate, Kent in the 1901 census and Lily Kelly, age 14, born Wandsworth, at the Workhouse at Penge in 1901. You appear to have located Richard Kelly (senior) to a workhouse, but I haven't come across that record yet.
UPDATE - Just found him! At the same Penge workhouse as sister Lily in 1901. Shows age as 10 (instead of 12), but birthplace as Wandsworth and no other Richard Kelly birth registered there c1890. Found his 1911 (Devonport) census record minutes later (showing age 20 instead of 22), so have attached both to his FT profile (L1HC-RKX).
2 -
Regarding your comment:
I don’t know where he died or if he ever returned to England or who his family originate from and whom they were.
I wonder why then (in 2018) you inputted a 1994 death to his profile (at L1HC-53M)?
I just made a check through Richard Kelly deaths (birth 1922) at FreeBMD and could find nothing to match his April 1922 birthdate. A check of deaths at the GRO website (for matching 1922 births) returned no results either - up to 2024. This indicates he probably did die overseas.
2 -
@AnthonyHaynes6 @Paul W
Since the last sighting of Richard Henry Kelly, born about 1889-90, was in India, for his 1926 marriage, I decided to look for him in India, on FindMyPast.I found a 13 February 1950 death, in Sewree, for Richard Henry Kelly, age 60.
https://www.findmypast.com/transcript?id=BL%2FBIND%2FD%2F450175First name(s)
Richard Henry
Last name
Kelly
Birth year
1890
Age
60
Death year
1950
Death date
13 Feb 1950
Year
1950
Burial date
13 Feb 1950
Place
Sewree
Presidency
-
Country
India
Archive
The British Library
Archive reference
N-11
Page
287
Catalogue description
India and Pakistan, ecclesiastical returns, registered 1949-1967, :
Record set
British India Office Deaths & Burials
Category
Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory
Parish Burials
Collections from
Great Britain, UK None
2 -
Thank you very much for the above.
i have really struggled with this and early doors added docs on a hunch!
definitely looks as though his Dad was James as it seems to add up.
On Richard’s military records which I have it lists his Father as dead and that was on enlistment 1904 he actually states his age as two years older.
but it does not list his fathers name only his mothers, which was Bertha
How do I go about finding death records in India, he remarried in 1926 in India and then signs up for the railway police.
0 -
By the way, there are dubious connections for the family of Elsie that should be reviewed and corrected.
Elsie's parents, William Henry Kelly and Johanna Menhennett, married in 1891. Their fathers are listed as Richard Kelly and William Thomas Menhennett.
Unfortunately, another contributor has linked William Henry Kelly to parents John Kelly and Ann Moore and Johannah Menhennett to parents John Menhennett and Elizabeth Rosalie Bray.I have not yet had time to review all the connections.
2 -
that’s amazing news!
I’ll see if I can get the death certificate!
I really can’t thank you enough
1 -
@AnthonyHaynes6
The death certificate for Richard Henry Kelly is available online. I've viewed it today.
I cannot post it here because of the Terms and Conditions of FindMyPast.
FamilySearch Centers offer free access to FindMyPast. Many public libraries also offer free access to FMP.2
