Entire catalogs not accessible at Family History Center
I am attempting to access the Meldezettel, 1930-1940 catalog (e.g., film 2221414, DGS 8571923) but all of the films are restricted. Ditto for the Meldekartei (Familien), 1940-1948 catalog.
I went to an affiliate library, and they were restricted there too. So I went to the Family History Center in Toronto, and couldn't access the films there either. No errors, just the locked camera icon. I was using one of the center's computers (chrome with the extension installed and a green "connected" icon).
Is anyone else experiencing this?
Best Answer
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Even if the Admins or Mods have access to the contract details, it is not within their purview to share the details with us.
Ancestry and FindMyPast, for example, do not share details of the contracts they have with record holders, and we pay them to access those records.
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Answers
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@DavidKendall7 I checked permissions on DGS 857192; my system says "no access." I looked in the catalog, and it appears to be held at the Granite Mountain Record Vault. I will ask the engineers to verify this; however, it appears the permissions are not available at this time. I am sorry for the frustration this causes. I hope you find success in your other searches. Thank you for your contribution to FamilySearch and the Community.
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Hello @DavidKendall7,
I got the same message when I specifically looked at your film 2221414, DGS 8571923 in the FSL catalogue: This item is not currently accessible due to access restrictions.
Note that I have a public FamilySearch account.
Given the dates of these records, 1930-1940 and 1940-1948, it's likely that these records contain information about people still living which may explain why these records are not accessible.
I asked a similar question recently about the same camera icon with the triangle enclosing an exclamation point in the lower corner for a different item in the catalogue and was told that the mesage means exactly what it says: no access currently available.
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It's my understanding that restricted records can be accessed by visiting an affiliate library or Family History Center. I did both, and they're not available there either.
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@DavidKendall7 There are several levels of restriction.
- some records are available from home
- a larger group is available from an AL
- an even larger one is available at an FSC
- some are available only in SLC
- some require membership in a certain group
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@Áine.ní.Donnghaile I've made a request to the City of Vienna to search and provide copies of the original Meldezettel (resident registration forms), but their turnaround time is up to two months.
Is there any possibility of hiring a genealogist with access to the Granite Mountain Record Vault to search the two films?0 -
@DavidKendall7 As far as I am aware, films listed with "Granite Mountain" are not available for anyone to research. SerraNola or m how could better advise you on that subject.
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@DavidKendall7 When films say "No Access," this does not mean "some access." Your best course of action is to find an alternative source for the information you seek or to wait the two months for a copy of the original from the document source, in this case, the City of Vienna. I know this is disappointing. I am sorry that there is no access to this information in FamilySearch.
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@m how Thanks for your reply. What's disappointing is your sarcasm! New users don't understand the intricacies of access, and the messages we see contradict what you're saying. But whatever - I will look elsewhere.
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We would like to remind everyone that we appreciate engagement and feedback from our community. At the same time, we expect comments to be respectful and kind. Please keep discussions constructive and mindful so this remains a safe, welcoming space for everyone.
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The sad thing with those restrictions is that they spread like a virus! Some years ago, most films under
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/koha:593235
were accessible. Now, most are not. I regret I didn't download the whole thing when those different familysearch-downloader where not yet blocked! Familysearch was once one of the best sources for genealogical data, recently it turns more and more into a no-access fortress. Users are constantly asked to login, downloads are restricted… Why does it have to be that way? The reply to questions regarding restrictions remains vague. Why isn't it possible to write "the archive in Leipzig forced us to take those films offline"?
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@Andreas Jahrow We cannot write about the exact reason records are restricted because, at the community level, we simply do not know what the contractual obligations are between "FamilySearch and Leipzig."
FamilySearch is committed to helping individuals discover and preserve their family history and strives to provide broad access to historical genealogical records. In some circumstances, however, access to certain collections may change due to contractual requirements, evolving privacy and other legal requirements, or
technology updates. We understand it can be disappointing when a collection you rely on becomes unavailable, and we want to assure you that these adjustments reflect our continued commitment to protecting individual privacy and maintaining strong data-stewardship practices.Thank you for your understanding and continued support.
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@shecorwe It would be really helpful if records that are no longer available due to contractual obligations were clearly marked as such, or delisted.
As things stand now, users are advised to go to a local library (they're said to have special access), or to the nearest Family History Centre. I did both to no avail, the latter even opened a support ticket to investigate the issue. I also reported it here, only to be told "Unavailable means unavailable, stupid." All of this has been a complete (frustrating) waste of time.
And for what it's worth, "contractual obligations" doesn't really hold up. Here's a collection organized by last name where most surnames are available, but some are not. Jump ahead a few pages to see what I mean.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/176296-1 -
I have to disagree with delisting. We need to know that the registers exist and have been filmed/photographed. The contract may change in the future, or the data privacy limitations may expire.
Delisting would make it more difficult for users to know that the records have survived and may be available elsewhere or at a future time on FamilySearch.
The newer messages on hover, explaining levels of restriction, are a great improvement.3 -
To be honest, disappointments and disputes will continue until (a) researchers understand that privacy restrictions are real and (b) FamilySearch is explicit in showing the reasons for restrictions. As @Áine.ní.Donnghaile says - the newer messages are an improvement. But even then, the issue is that there may be errors in the restrictions, so the idea that "contractual obligations doesn't really hold up" may not be true. I know nothing of Vienna but note that DGS 4373977 and 4373980 are available but 4373979 isn't despite all 3 apparently being the same types of data for surname Wagner. There must be a possibility that there is an error here (although it's difficult to be sure since we can't see the relevant data because it's restricted. Sigh).
https://community.familysearch.org/en/categories/search has been set up to include a Record Issues option and I would recommend, @DavidKendall7 that you use this to report at least some of the issues, although I can't advise on what level you should attempt things.
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As a German, I'm doing loads of research in local state- and church-archives. I've seen whole collections - donated by private individuals - becoming unavailable after being accessible for decades. This has less to do with real privacy concerns than with a typical German "Angst" which is so widespread in the administration. If I donate the results of my lifelong research to an archive, I'm doing it to make it available for other researchers and not to be locked away in some vault. The "Ahnenstammkartei des deutschen Volkes" which i linked to in my original post is such a case: The "Ahnenlisten (AL) files of the Deutsche Zentralstelle für Genealogie" included in this vast collection were originally submitted by researchers to be shared with other researchers. Back in 2018, FamilySearch began to digitize the microfilms of this largest collection of ethnic German genealogies and to provide them online. Now, something changed: The custodian - Staatsarchiv Leipzig in Saxony - seems to have intervened and suddenly, most of the collection is locked away. To be clear: This is not the fault of FamilySearch! FamilySearch is a fantastic service for any serious researcher! But German genealogists would be in a much stronger position if FamilySearch would make the reasons for restrictions public! Not in a general way, but for each affected collection. In our case: On what ground did the Staatsarchiv Leipzig demand that this collection should be taken offline?
"At the community level, we simply do not know what the contractual obligations are between FamilySearch and Leipzig." - ??? "Ask a Question" is not some private blog but a section of familysearch.org! How comes the admins have no access to such infos? That would be a serious transparency-issue!
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