Lookup Request: Restricted Image in Mainz, Hessen (1749) - Film 957791 / Image 122
Hello everyone!
Could someone who is visiting a Family History Center or an Affiliate Library kindly help me look up a restricted image?
I have found the exact index for my ancestor's baptism, but the image is restricted (Image Unavailable) from home. Here are the precise details:
- Event Place: Sankt Quintin, Mainz, Hessen, Germany
- Event Date: 2 February 1749
- Name of Child: Carolus Franciscus De Rionzini
- Parents: Anibalis Pauli De Rionzini & Annae Mariae Lemoir
- Microfilm Number: 957791
- Digital Folder Number (DGS): 007991382_001_M9XX-6VN
- Image Number: 122
The FamilySearch index link is here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DTT1-X9PZ
If someone could pull up Image 122 and send me a copy via Private Message (or email), I would be incredibly grateful! I am trying to verify the exact spelling of the names and see the godparents (specifically Graf von Cobenzl).
Thank you so much in advance for your time and help I can provide my email if needed!
Alexandra
Best Answers
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I understand how helpful those images can be for your research. Unfortunately, I’m not able to provide or share restricted images from FamilySearch. These restrictions are in place to honor agreements and other laws.
If you’re able to visit a FamilySearch Center or an authorized affiliate library, you may be able to access them there. Let me know if you’d like help finding one.
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@AlexandraFomicheva
I've been to my FSC today. I'm happy to say that the image is beautifully clear and in legible Latin cursive. Hardly any inkblots!
Mense Februaris
2da
Carolus Franciscus filius legitimus pronubilisD. Anibalis Pauli de Rionzini et Anna Maria
nata Lenoir conjugum levante
Excellentissimo D. comite de Cobenzel legato
Caesareo Majestatis
NB - the mother's maiden could be Le moir, but I think it looks more like an "n" compared to other words on the same page.The name of the priest is not written on the individual records.
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Answers
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@Alan E. Brown I understand, thank you for the detailed answer, and I apologize for the inappropriate request.
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@Alan E. Brown would it not be acceptable for someone to transcribe the names the OP has requested?
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@MandyShaw1 Thank you for your answer. It is acceptable to transcribe the information as long as the actual image is not involved and the attributes are placed at the end of the transcription. State clearly in the notes that the information was extracted from a restricted FamilySearch historical collection, or other, so everyone understands where your information came from.
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Thank you. By and large, what I really need is the text itself. I have an 18th-century translation of this vital record and am simply curious to see how closely it matches the original, but I appreciate members' assistance and accept the portal's terms of use.
Here is the text I have: I, the undersigned, testify that Carolus Franciscus, legitimate son of Annibale Pauli Rion de Zini and Her Grace Anna Maria née Le Moir (Le Moire), was baptized in our parish of Saints Quintini and Blasius on February 2, 1749, according to the rites of the Roman Catholic Church.
The godparents were:
— His Excellency Count von Cobenzl, a subject of His Majesty.
In witness whereof, I have given this baptismal certificate, signed and sealed, dated February 4, 1749. Matvey Gor, Archpriest (Matthaeus Gor, Archpriest)
Karl von Cobenzl0 -
@AlexandraFomicheva
If someone else doesn't check the transcription for you sooner, I'll be at my FSC later this week.4 -
@Áine.ní.Donnghaile Thank you! Is it ethical to simply verbally compare the contents of my translation with the original?
Name: Carolus Franciscus
Father: Annibale Pauli Rion de Zini (de Rionzini)
Mother: Anna Maria née Le Moir (Le Moire)
Godparents: Count von Cobenzl
Priest: Matthaeus Gor, Archpriest1 -
@AlexandraFomicheva
Verbatim, the direct instructions I recently received:
only share details you are able to transcribe from the recordUntil I see it, while at my FSC, I won't know how legible it is.
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Anyone looking at the original record will need to be able to read either 18th century Latin, or perhaps German.
Many years ago I was sent a 19th century record from a German church in England. I couldn't read a single word of it.
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Yes, @MaureenE123 I'm aware. My degree is in European languages, and I spent 30 years in International Business.
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@MaureenE123 @Áine.ní.Donnghaile Thank you for your comments. I managed to find the original birth certificates of this person's siblings on a German resource. Unlike the archive in Mainz, the certificates from Kleve are publicly available and can be downloaded by anyone. The text in these certificates is easy to read, and the names are clearly legible. This depends on the person's handwriting, of course.
I'm interested in seeing the 3rd record (Carolus Franciscus De Rionzini) too. I requested the Mainz archive, but I don't yet know if I'll be able to obtain an original scan. In my case, the basic information is available on the website https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DTT1-XSMM?lang=en, except for the name of the godparent, the priest, and the title of the child's father.
I'm investigating an interesting case: Annibal de Rionzini was a con artist, like Count Cagliostro. He traveled under the title of count, interacted with the highest dignitaries of the time, and baptized his children with the same dignitaries. However, as it turns out, he wasn't a count; he was born in a small village to a family of carpenters and tailors. Three generations of his descendants believed they were counts. And in the mid-19th century, it turned out that no, but they hid this discovery and continued to call themselves counts.
PS The real surname in this family was Pauli (Paoli), De Rionzini - is an invented addition to add a touch of aristocracy to the name. But as I see in this entry, de Rionzini was recorded as the father's surname, and Pauli as his middle name.
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@Áine.ní.Donnghaile 😍 🙏 Huge thank you from me! I ordered the original scan in the German archive, but paying for it turned out to be a huge problem for me because they sent an invoice with bank details. I tried several apps and ended up paying without their reference number because there was nowhere to insert it. So I'm still not sure they'll send me anything. I'm sending my thanks and suggesting you download the family tree templates if that might be helpful - https://alfoart.com/derionzini-en/tree-template/. I describe my count's history on my website, and I was interested to know what the real birth certificate contained, because the count was quite the adventurer. In other metrics, the name of the mother was le Moir, but I was interested in de Cobenzel - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Karl_Philipp_von_Cobenzl, he was a very prominent figure of his time and not every count could afford such a godfather. My count was from a family of tailors and carpenters:)
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