Irregularities, when trying to view "Similar Records" from record details page
I have a guest using the collection: "Italy, Salerno, Civil Registration (State Archive), 1806-1949." The guest starts on this record details page: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQY4-JMB8?lang=en (DGS 100725593, image 232)
Under "Similar Records" on the right are listed six similar records all from this same collection.
Guest clicks on the first similar record, clicks view record. New window, DGS 100725809, im 20.
Guest clicks on the second similar record, gets this message:
Guest clicks on third similar record, clicks view record. DGS 100725581, im 123
Guest clicks on fourth similar record, gets the above unable to show message.
Guest clicks on fifth similar record, gets the above unable to show message.
Guest clicks on sixth similar record, gets the above unable to show message.
Please help us understand what is going on here?
Answers
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You may have heard about very recent changes to our agreements with the Italian State Archives, or DGA. The records in this collection are a reflection of the more than 500,000 that were moved to the new contracts. Restrictions for each film are governed by the specific terms outlined in the contract and not by any privacy rules.
The record hints under “Similar Records” illustrate the varying permissions:
#100725593 – Accessible to anyone
#100772064 – Accessible only with LDS Account
#100725581 – Accessible to anyone
#100725799 – Accessible only with LDS Account
#100725777 – Accessible only with LDS Account
Hopefully this will clarify the situation for the guest. What can and can't be shown is outside of our control.
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Thank you for your answear! Now I have a couple of questions:
1. Where do I find the record hints under “Similar Records”? I can't see the numbers on my pages... (example: #100725593)
2. I seem to understand that a LDS Account is an account for your church members. Is there any way to open such an account if you are not a member of the church?
Furthermore: all the records I'm interested in, are from the same archive (Archivio di Stato di Salerno, sezione di Sarno) and almost from the same period in time. So why do different rules apply to them?Thanks again for everything!
Maria Rosaria from Italy
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@karenrasmussen @MariaRosaria24
Most of the records from Salerno's Stato Civile should be viewed on Antenati. While these records are not as easily searched as you see on FamilySearch, they are there.
So, start here for Sarno, Salerno: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/search-registry/?localita=Sarno
Some examples from your specific research:
The document in this link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQY4-JMB8?lang=en
can be found here: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12657/an_ua1964980/5B6M6nZ
————The document in this link: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQY4-J8B3?lang=en
can be found here: https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12657/an_ua1965102/LeJeylR
Hope this helps - I can't see some of the specific record references listed by @SerraNola but if you provide a list with the details shown on the left such as town, year, record type, record number, then I can get you links to those as well.
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Thanks for you answer! I'm a frequent user of Antenati Portal, I'm Italian and I can easily read the original documents (even when handwritten or written in Latin). But (and it is a very big "but"!!!) many files on Antenti don't have an index, so sometimes the search requires a lot of time. Family Search is a wonderful help because it gives the Certificate Number which I use as a "pointer" to Antenati. Starting from a single certificate, I learn other family connections, I search their records on Family Search, and again I'm able to point to Antenati for the original documents. Following this path, I'm back to about mid-1700 on almost all the branches of my family tree, and this is truly amazing!
Unfortunately, the error I'm getting is creating some stops in my process. I'm not even sure the records I'm interest in are subjected to privacy regulations (they are very old, about 1800), furthermore I don't see any number documenting the restriction (as suggested by @SerraNola).
Anyway, I'm interested, if possible, to upgrade my account to have further access to your data. I'm very thankful for the huge work you do and for the efficiency of your customer service!
Maria Rosaria
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@MariaRosaria24 If by "upgrade my account" you mean to gain access to the benefits available to members of the LDS Church, as SerraNola noted above, FamilySearch does not offer that option. The "LDS Account" is available only for members of the LDS Church.
The Italy Research group may include some participants who are members of the LDS Church.
https://community.familysearch.org/en/group/108-italy-research2 -
If you view the Antenati data using Gallery view, you will find that many years include a "soft index" - that is a handwritten index contained within the pages for the records as I am sure you have found in the past. These indexes are often at the end of each film series, however, as in one of my links above, they may also be found at the beginning. And yes, many have none at all.
That is the best we have to go on when working with that site.
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The film numbers for Similar Records do not display on the Record Details page. You can only see the number by opening the hint and if it is restricted it will not open. Most of the time you should not see records you cannot access in this list, but because permissions were changed fairly recently it appears the list was generated previous to the changes.
Legally, we are bound by the terms of the contract with the DGA. FamilySearch camera crews spent years visiting Italian archives to create digital records at no cost. As document owners, the DGA decides on access, but the original agreement always allowed church members access because they contributed thousands of volunteer hours to the project.
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Thanks to everyone who answered, you have been really helpful.
@SantaNinfa: the handwritten indexrs on Antenati Portal (when available) are sometimes useful and sometimes……. not so useful! I search the province of Salerno and quite a lot of indexes are listed by first name and not by last name!!! That's amusing, for example you find a long list of "Antonio" in the birth certificates indexe for a given year and you have to read each parents' names to decide which one is in your family:) But really I'm learning a lot of informations about my family on Antenati (sometimes I find records I didn't even know I was searching!) and I'm very grateful for the patient work of your camera crews who made them available to everyone!
Maria Rosaria
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I went to Italy Research Group and I would like to partecipate in the thread initiated by Roxanne6196, but I don't find a place to post my comment…
She writes she is confused because many women in her family where named "Maria" This may be misleading in finding them because even if Maria is used sometimes as a first name, very very often, in Italy, it is just an "add-on" that precedes the first name (Italy was a strongly Catholic country and the pre-name Maria was used to honor the Virgin Mary, expecially in the past!). So sometimes you find "Maria Anna" or "Maria Michela" on a birth (or Baptism) certificate, but the woman is listed simply as "Anna" o "Michela" in other certificates. My own name (Rosaria) is preceded by "Maria", no one calls me Maria in Italy, I'm simply Rosaria or Maria Rosaria in formal occasions. Please note that the pre-name, when present, is part of our Codice Fiscale (which more or less is the Italian equivalent of USA SSN) so it is really important in our days, but that was not the case in the past so sometimes you find information simply omitting "Maria" in your search. Sometimes you may also find that Maria is abbreviated as M. (capital M followed by a point), so "M. Michela" means "Maria Michela". Furthermore, Maria is sometimes used for men as a second or third name, (example: Giovanni Maria).
Hope you can reach Roxanne6196, I would be glad to learn hot to interact with the group. Thank you!
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Thank you for your comments and desire to help others. To be clear, I am not part of FamilySearch staff. I am just an avid user of the records that exist due to the hard work of many others. As @SerraNola mentioned, thousands of hours of time were contributed many years ago when records were first photographed and then digitized.
The soft indexes, even when sorted by given name, are, I suppose, better than nothing. I also find it amusing that there are towns that exist with books that are indexed like that.
To help Roxanne directly you simply need to join the Italy group linked by Áine above. Once you join, a box will appear for your comments, just like it does here.
So, click on the link and then click on JOIN.
![FireShot Capture 006 - Italy Research — FamilySearch Community - [community.familysearch.org].jpg](https://us.v-cdn.net/6032564/uploads/LHE75CEL5C8J/fireshot-capture-006-italy-research-e2-80-94-familysearch-community-5bcommunity-familysearch-org-5d.jpg)
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@SantaNinfa Thank you and sorry if I posted in the wrong place. I will join the Italy Research group.
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#100725593 – Accessible to anyone
#100772064 – Accessible only with LDS Account
#100725581 – Accessible to anyone
#100725799 – Accessible only with LDS Account
#100725777 – Accessible only with LDS Account
@SerraNola I've been at my FSC this afternoon, and I have not been able to access some of the DGS in this list that should be available to all of us. Just for clarification, I do not have an LDS Account.
The messages received:
DGS 100725593 - This item is viewable with additional restrictionsDGS 10772064 and 10725581 - show 2 conflicting icons:
This item is viewable with additional restrictions
AND
An error occurred, we cannot show you this film at this time.
As expected, I should not be able to access
DGS 100725799 and 10072577, and the additional restrictions messages appear on both.1 -
I guess I was not very clear. I was explaining why some items in "Similar Records" can be opened and others cannot. In other words. these permissions apply to the record indexes. Images are only accessible with an LDS account. Sorry for the miscommunication.
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Just for information: I revisited the link where I originally had the problem: "We are unable to show this record". Now the "similar records" list (on the right of the page) is much shorter then before and each an every record is accessible for prewiev! It seems as someone deleted the "restricted" records or at least they were hidden to the end users. Even if I'm sorry I'm probably missing some records, I still feel that now the situation is less confusing. Thanks for your help.
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