I need help searching records for ancestors in Amserdam, Netherlands in 1600's...
Who can I contact to help me with finding the birth records for an ancestor, David Pieterse Schuyler 12 Feb. 1636-1690, supposed son of Pieter Tjercks and Gertruyt Phillipse Van Schuylder. His sister, Maritje pieterse Schuyler b. 15 Oct. 1630 has a source from "Netherlands births & Baptisms, 1564-1910. But, in the Indexed records, it has her name as Maritje Tjarxsz. I have tried to find David, but cannot read the records good enough to find his name. They both came to New York - does that explain the name change?
Thank you for your help.
Answers
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This may be the birth record you are looking for:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBBP-BXS
The name is: Davit Harxsz (close to the sister Maritje's surname "Tjarxsz"), and the event date is: 12 Feb 1636. The father is Pieter Harxsz and the mother is Geertje Van Schuijlen.
Here is the link for the original index image from which this birth record was created:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9QV-HW6Y?i=216&cc=2037985
The record is on the left-hand page, left-hand column, 11th record from the top.
Notice the following with the sister's name and Davit's name:
Maritje Tjarxsz
Davit Harxsz
I don't speak Dutch, but based on the information you provided, the above birth record appears to be a good match for the David you are looking for.
P.S. I am not experienced with Dutch/Netherlandish genealogical research and therefore cannot address the issue of the name change.
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Just saw your answer so I am anxious to look up the record!! Thank u so much!!
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Hurrah! After a couple of tries, I figured out the record with the spellings that u gave me. What does the 3rd line say under Geertje's name? I had looked through 1636 up to p. 22, so went right by Davit's record, but I didn't know that the child's name was on the right & then the parent's listed. So, glad u did! Other, than the year, how where is the 12 Feb. listed? Thank you so much for your speedy help! We have been working on this line for a while but the spellings are a challenge & getting the right sources.
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If you have time, may I please ask for two more areas of help. I am trying to confirm sources and then build the tree for David, my 9th ggfather. His father, Pieter Tjarxssen (Tjercks) md Geertruit Phillipsdr 24 Oct 1627 in Amsterdam. This source was found on Ancestry.com under Netherlands Select marriages 1565-1892 that was Indexed. My question is can you pls help me find a link to this original marriage record? Pieter Tjercks ws b. around 1601-1656 but perhaps in Germany, not Amsterdam.
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Also in a source taken from the New Amsterdam, Dutch Reformed Church NY it has "David Pieterse Schuyler 1636-1690 md. Catalyntje Ver Plant and parents names spelled Pieter Jansz Tjerks + Geertruy Phillips Diercks Schuyler" I hadn't seen Pieter's middle name listed as Jansz before or Geertruy's name of Diercks. There is a Schroeder website where they posted that David's brother Phil Piertersz Schuyler was the son of Geertruy Philips van Schuyler and Pieter Diercksz, a baker from the free city of Emden - Germany.
Thank you very much for helping me verify this information!
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The third line is possibly the godparent or baptismal sponsor.
For the date, look in the middle of the same page around record 8 and 9 in the space between the left and right columns and you will see the number "12". Go back one image and in the same part of the left page around record 9 and 10, and you will see the date "3 February".
Your image is most likely "12" February.
By the way, the record in the image may only be an index entry and there may be a more complete record of the Davit's birth/baptism on one of the Dutch archival sites.
This is where you should ask for help from a researcher with experience in Dutch records.
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Here is the FamilySearch abstract for Pieter Tjarxssen's and Geertruit Phillips's 24 October 1627 marriage record:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FN8Z-JJB
And here is the link to the index image found on FHL microfilm no. 113,353:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89QV-GVVV?i=264&cc=2037985
Left-hand page. Notice at the top of this page the date: 1627, 21 October. Then there is one entry for a groom named "Jacob" then a line.
Under the line is the date: "24 dito" meaning: 24 October 1627.
The marriage entry for Pieter Tjarxssen and Geertruit Phillips is the tenth entry under the date 24 October 1627. Again, this appears to be only an index entry.
I don't know what that is written over on the far right. This is where you will need the assistance of a Dutch genealogy expert.
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Thank you for explaining abt the date. I was successful in finding the record for Davit, Maritje & brother Pieter.
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Thank u very much for your help! I was able to find the original source for the marriage of Pieter & Geertruit. It is great to be able to read the original record for the births & the marriage. Excellent research that I have not been able to do on my own. Who do you suggest as a Dutch Researcher if I have further questions abt the many surname spellings that were used? Also, do you research in Germany? I would like to see if there are any records for Pieter Tjerks (Diercksz) a baker from Emden - Germany. Do you have time this week to help me with this search? Thank you for your help today, it is very much appreciated!
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You're very welcome, @CFitzgarrald CFitzgarrald!
I would suggest you ask your question again about Dutch researchers who may be able to help you as a new question to the whole community at large as you did earlier today.
The same would apply for help with your German research. There are many volunteers who may be able to assist you on the German Genealogy Research community forum, so it's always best to ask for help from the community at large.
What's important when you ask your question is to provide as much information about the individual as possible. That is why I was able to help you today because you provided so much useful information. Do the same when you ask about Pieter Tjerks/Diercksz.
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I appreciate your suggestions and I will post two new questions to the Community. What a great resource!
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@CFitzgarrald CFitzgarrald If you get stuck, one of our Family History Consultants speaks fluent Dutch but we are in Australia. I can get her to check your question in the general forum if you post it there.
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Thank you, @IngeAnnaDanaher IngeAnnaDanaher! That's great!
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Here's the link to the Dutch Genealogical Word List from the FamilySearch Research Wiki:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Dutch_Genealogical_Word_List
This may help you in your Dutch research.
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Here's the link to the "Belgium, Luxembourg, and The Netherlands" genealogy community group on FamilySearch. This is where you should post your questions for your Dutch family history research.
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Awesome! I will gather my info & post this morning. May I also ask if you have the link for the German community group that I should ask about the birth of Pieter in Emden, Germany? Thank you very much for the extra help!
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You are in the German community group! 😊
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A note about the surname. Tjarxsz is short for Tjarxszoon, Tjark's son. It's a patronym, or at least was originally. You should also be aware that Tjark is a variant form of Tjerk. Dutch and Frisian contain a (sometimes) sound change along with English where e>a before r. Think of the occupation and name clerk/Clark. Same word. How about vermin/varmint, concern/consarn (dialect word). Or even across languages earth/aard(vark) (which had two of those changes, cf German FERkel).
And, keep k or ck in mind for the x.
Hope this helps.
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As @Fritz Juengling just said, you are in the German genealogy group. It's the same group where you asked your original question last night.
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Danke schön, Herr Doktor Juengling!
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One final note:
I found some public member trees for Pieter Tjerks/Diercks on Ancestry. None of these trees are particularly well-sourced.
Some say Pieter was born circa 1601 in Emden, Germany.
Others say Pieter was born circa 1601 in Emmen, The Netherlands.
Since "Emden" and "Emmen" are reasonably close in spelling, you should keep this in mind as you search for Pieter's birth/baptismal record.
Here is the link to a map that shows both Emmen, The Netherlands, and Emden, Germany:
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Thank u very much for the explanation of the spelling. Robert Seal was very helpful in finding the original birth records for this family which verified what I had as far as dates & parents. The father, Pieter Tjercks b. abt 1601 in Emden, Niedersachsen, Germany per history "the People of Colonial Albany" by Stefan Bielinski says that Pieter Diercks was a German-born Amsterdam baker. Another history says "a baker from the free city of Emden." Are there birth records for this time period? Would Pieter then be the son of Tjerck? I found information, but I would appreciate an expert really verifying if it is true. On "Geni" someone has posted a Pieter Tjercks b. abt 1601 in Emden d. 1656 in Amsterdam with parents of Tjerck Jansz and Styntie Doudes and two wives Geertruy Philips Van Schuyler and md. 1651 Grietje Leender b. Oldenburg. The children are the same as I have - Philip b. 1628, Maritje b. 1630, Pieter b. 1634 & David b. 1636 all in Amsterdam. There is no real documentation provided, just lists of family names on the Geni Website. I have 8 direct lines in Germany, so they all very special to me, but I do not know any German to help. Thank you for your time & interest.
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Yes, that's what I found in Ancestry & why I was trying to find the original sources. Too many variables with the names to be sure without good sources. The history from New York about the Schuyler family referred to Pieter as the baker from the free city of Emden, Germany, so I'm hoping that they have that right. Geni also has posts for the family, but not the original sources. Thank you again for the extra help!
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Thank u so very much! I really appreciate everyone being so kind and offering to help. 😂
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Attention: @CFitzgarrald CFitzgarrald:
Baptismal Record of Philps Janz on 8 February 1628 in Amsterdam:
Here is the link for the abstract of the baptism from FamilySearch:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBP1-TBL
Here is the link for the image of the index entry for this baptism from FHL Micorfilm no. 113,144:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9Q2-4H84?i=473&cc=2037985
Left-hand page, right column, second image from the top.
Child: Philps
Date: 8 February 1628
Father: Pieter Jansz
Mother: Geertruijt Philps
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I apologize not seeing an earlier answer posted for Philip, I thought we had just talked about Davit & Maritje. The record I was at for Philip was the same record as for Davit & Maritje "open 1628-1646 & on image 4 left half side I thought the date was 2 January 1628 & I was looking for 8 Feb. 1628 & not finding it. With your present link for 1628 image 474 I do see the record for Philip - thank you very much. I was surprised to see that his father's name was Pieter Jansz instead of Pieter Harxsz or Tjarxsz but with the same Mother, Geertruit. With the father's name listed as Tjerck Jansz I had previously found a posting that said this from a Heidi Kneip back in 2015. This is where we are confused trying to figure out the father for Pieter and hopefuilly Philip's church record has helped solve that. Please read & see what you think is correct - " I have been told that:*Pieter Tjercks was the son of Tjercks Jansz (Jannson). Tjercks was b: 1577 and went to Amsterdam in 1607. Tjercks married Styntie Doudes (born in Emden, Germany).*Tjercks & Styntie had Pieter 1603 and Stijntie 1601.*Stijntie married 1625 Dominicus Mattijsse Heringa (a cabinet maker) and died in 1634 giving birth to twins.*Pieter Tjercks married Geertruyt Van Schuyler (1603-1651). They had Philip Pieterse 1628-1683, Maritgen 1630, Pieter 1634 & David 1636-1698. All children were born in Amsterdam. Philip & David ended up in NY. Name: Tjerck JANSZ Sex: M Birth: 1577 Death: in Amsterdam, Holland**Marriage 1 Styntie DOUDES b: in Emden, Germany Married: 1599 Children Peter TJERCKS b: 1601 in Emden, Germany Pieter and Geertruy, of old Dutch descent..." I really appreciate your help! Thank you.
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Having not done the research for this family it is not possible for me to say what is correct beyond the birth records I helped you find.
Given that Pieter has so many forms of his surname, this is where it would be best to post your questions at the FamilySearch Belgium, Luxembourg, and The Netherlands community forum where volunteers knowledgeable in Dutch family history research can explain Dutch naming patterns and review your research. They may also be able to offer suggestions as to how you can find documentation for Pieter's parents.
I think the synopsis you provided is very good so be sure to share that with the Dutch community forum.
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Thank you Robert for all of your research help and suggestions. I have added the Church record for Philip and that was a great find since those records have not been as yet Indexed. Have a good evening.
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You are very welcome,@CFitzgarrald CFitzgarrald!
You can feel comfortable that you have found the birth records for the children now. It was an interesting introduction to Dutch family history research, and in particular how complicated the naming system is. Much success with your ongoing research.
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Thank you. When my Dutch family is all accounted for, I will return and ask a question or two for my German ancestors. 😂
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