New format for digitised Books. FamilySearch Digital Library

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: If you Search the FamilySearch website under the category Books, there is now a new page FamilySearch Digital Library
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...

Previously books in the public domain could be downloaded, now there is a book reader

As an example
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...

There seem to be some good initiatives. The text is searchable, the pages are rotatable (although I found this function somewhat difficult to use after the first rotation) and there is a reverse colour option) to black background and white text, which I believe makes it easier to read indistinct text.

There is an option to go to the previous or next page. However, if I look in the Index and want to go to specific page, there is no direct option for this. The only way I can do this is by scrolling through the thumbnail pages. I can think of no other book reader where it is necessary to go to the thumbnail pages to get to a specific page, and it is not one most people would think of. In fact some people may not even be aware what a thumbnail is. So to me the fact that you cannot type in somewhere the page you want is a definite negative. Or perhaps it is there and I have missed it.

Previously books in the public domain could be downloaded. However, I cannot see this option now available. Could someone please confirm.

Regarding the books which have a protected status such as "Christian cemeteries of Penang and Perak"
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...
I would be grateful if someone who is connected with a Family History Centre, could please advise if books such as this are viewable by non church members at a Family History Centre, or are viewable at all by Church members.

LegacyUser

gasmodels said: if you look on the bottom right of the viewer there is a page listing which appears to be current page and total pages. I was able to enter a new number in the current page and jump to another page on the book I was looking at.

Nvpattt

A good place to go with these ideas and questions is at the top of the page where it says, "Ask a question." You will reach someone that can discuss this with you.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Thanks gasmodels. I had tried that previously without success.

However, I had another try, and was (eventually) successful. I found you need to click in front of the number, when a box will appear, and then you can delete the existing page number, and add a new number. I had tried to delete the existing page number first, which using a mouse right handed was the closest thing to do, and nothing had happened. This was using Safari.

I tried a number of different pages, and generally once the box had appeared it remained there, but there were a couple of occasions when the box disappeared, and I once more had to click for it to appear.

FamilySearch team, could not the box with page numbers in it be displayed all the time, rather than having to first, (and sometimes subsequently) click for it to appear? It certainly fooled me.

Regarding the page https://www.familysearch.org/library/..., some of the links to the partner institutions do not work.

The banner says "Browse collections from libraries all over the world". How does one do that? I can see that you can browse the partner institutions, but they all seem to be USA based.
Can the FamilySearch collection be browsed?

Regarding the questions I asked about protected status books, I think it would be helpful for this sort of information be provided on the website. As the protected status books have been included in the digital library, presumably someone can view them somewhere, otherwise what is the point of including them?

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Searching in the Books/Digital Library Search for keyword Calcutta, there were 19217 Results which wear distributed as follows
Family History Archive 5281
Family History Archive - Copyright Protected 4169
Family History Archive - Serials 1816
americana 1504
Family History Archive - Serials - Copyright Protected 1289
allen_county; americana 1230
Family History Archive - Internet Archive 756
robarts; toronto 447
uffamilysearch; univ_florida_smathers; americana 416
cdl; americana 385
toronto 306
library_of_congress; americana 140
texts 130
cornell; americana 114
university_of_alberta_libraries_microfilm; university_of_alberta_libraries; toronto; microfilm; additional_collections 97
Princeton; americana 94
majorityworldcollection; Princeton; americana 80
europeanlibraries 70
bostonpubliclibrary; americana 67
kellylibrary; toronto 64
additional_collections 51
opensource 50
newyorkpubliclibrary; americana 46
universallibrary 39
microfilm; additional_collections 33
USGovernmentDocuments; bostonpubliclibrary; americana; additional_collections 31
sanfranciscopubliclibrary; americana 25
bostonuniversiyschooloftheology; blc; americana 19
saint_marys_college; toronto 19
family_history_library; brighamyounguniversityidaho; americana 14
trinitycollege; toronto 14
carli_lib 13
Boston_College_Library; blc; americana 12
pimslibrary; toronto 12
ColumbiaUniversityLibraries; americana 11
biodiversity; MBLWHOI; blc; americana 11
university_pittsburgh; americana 11
northeastern; blc; americana 10
africanaspecialcollectionsduplessis; universityofpretorialibraryservices; africanlibraries 9
ubclibrary; toronto 9
umass_amherst_libraries; blc; americana 9
universitywesterno; toronto 9
and the list continues.

Looking at a few sample books, most of the collections which are not specified as Family History Archive, seem to be collections that are available on the Internet Archive, Archive.org. Personally I prefer the reader on Archive.org. Also, for those who want to download from the Internet Archive, Archive.org, download is possible in a number of different formats.

Looking at the catalog details within the FamilySearch Digital Library, I note that there is no publication date displayed which I think is a negative feature, nor is there a date filter on the left hand side of the page, where you could filter for date published. If you have a number of Search results, there is a drop down menu at the top of the page which includes Sort by : Date (ascending)
Sort by : Date (descending) but neither of these sort bys showed any results, the message being "Sorry, but nothing matched your search terms."

It is of interest that at least one book in the Digital Library appears to be derived from a digitised microfilm
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...

Unfortunately this appears to one of a select few, as the following book which is a digitised microfilm viewable on your home computer is still only available in the digitised microfilm format, not in the Digital Library
https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...
Indian and colonial mercantile directory for 1869

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A FamilySearch church member has advised that the book mentioned in my original post "Christian cemeteries of Penang and Perak" https://www.familysearch.org/library/...
also shows for her as "Access Level Protected".

So if both LDS church members and non church members are unable to access it, who if anyone can access it? What is the point of including it, and other similar books in a Digital Library?

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: I'm happy to report that there is now a download option for those who want to download, although I haven't tried it. Located on the bar at the bottom of the book reader.
There are also other "new" icons located on the bar including
"Show bookmarks" which is a listing of page numbers. What about calling it "Show pages list"

When I clicked on the Flipping icon, over half the icons which had previously been displayed vanished, and only returned when I clicked on Picture. This seems like a BUG to me.

And why call an icon Picture? Does that convey what it actually is?

Another feature I would like is to have a URL for a specific page. I imagine others would like this if they want to add a particular page as a source for a person in Family Tree. I was able to copy a URL for a specific page I was looking at. However when I subsequently used that URL it did not show that specific page, rather it defaulted to the book title page.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Perhaps an indication that no one from the Technical team reads the topic posted in this forum, but I notice that as mentioned in the post above, if you want to read the online book two pages at a time, as you would a normal book, you need to select an icon called Flipping. However if you select this icon, none of the adjustments for size, contrast etc are available to you.

It is as though the person who has designed this icon has only thought of this icon will be used to turn pages. However, if you have a large screen it may be convenient to read two pages at a time, but you may still want to make changes to size of font, contrast etc.

Can anyone think of the logic behind this? That everyone will be reading on a mobile device and so automatically would select "Picture"?

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: I find the new interface frustrating. The advanced searching capability is gone and it doesn't allow for common workarounds like quotations or pluses to isolate search terms.

The text is larger but that means you have fewer results per page. And many of the results are not even available to view. Volume, in this instance, is not helpful.

I cannot do what I used to be able to do with digital books. I'm completely frustrated.

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: Book downloading, if allowed, was available with the previous interface. So that is not new.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Two comments by Sarah W, seen at the bottom of the blog RootsTech 2019 FamilySearch Updates February 19, 2019
https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/...

"February 25, 2019 at 1:11 am
Please add back advanced searching features within books. It is much more difficult now to get a more exact search.

Also, please add a third option of no image so that we can go through the search items faster — no image would crunch down the text into less space, being able to see more results faster.

February 25, 2019 at 1:15 am
Also, the abstracts are now missing from the book descriptions, which is extremely important to have available to know more about the title. Can that be added back in?"

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: I pointed out in my post of Feb 14, 2019 that some of the links on the page
https://www.familysearch.org/library/... did not work.
This is the Main Page for FamilySearch Digital Library

Personally, I would not want to have dead links on such a page, as I think sloppy work has negative connotations, but FamilySearch has not seen fit to fix it.

Perhaps this is symbolic of the low priority which the Digital Library seems to have been given, as I don't think there has been any progress for weeks.

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: FamilySearch, can you give us a heads up if any of these issues will be fixed? The digital library is super important for those of us who do much heavy lifting in FamilySearch. Those of us who are family history workhorses have utilized the digital library for years, but now it is nearly unusable and a completely frustrating interface. What can be done?

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: I notice there was a blog posted April 5, 2019
Is Your Family in the Updated Digital Library?
https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/...

I believe it would be helpful if the information in the the blog was directly available from the Digital Library page
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...
via a "button" with wording along the lines "Further information" or "Frequently asked questions" or ...

The comments at the bottom of the blog indicate that "We are working on an advanced search screen", so that is a positive step.

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: Maureen - thank you so much for following up with this. Yes, that is a positive step.

LegacyUser

Frieda Clark said: THANK YOU! MaureenE 7 months ago
"I'm happy to report that there is now a download option for those who want to download, although I haven't tried it." It's too bad FS could send us all a message of these changes pertaining to the new book features. :-(

LegacyUser

Paul said: Maureen

Sorry I missed this thread earlier - I came across it after reading Frieda Clark's post at https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea....

Having had problems with finding books of interest to me on the FamilySearch site I got in the habit of going to https://archive.org/details/americana. However, using that website doesn't seem to be as straightforward as it used to be.

Just now, I found downloading a book from the FS site (albeit one I'd previously downloaded, using the "old method") to be pretty straightforward, but appreciate there are restrictions on downloading certain material, so this exercise is not always so simple as I found it today.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Phil, in another topic has asked for comments on the Digital Library.

Desirable features for the FamilySearch Digital Library

In what follows the term Main Page refers to the Main Page of the Digital Library

From the Main Page, it would be helpful to HAVE A LINK TO AN INFORMATION SECTION/ FAQ FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS section, pointing out features of the Search, book reader etc. There was a recent blog which has some information but it could be expanded.
"Is Your Family in the Updated Digital Library?" FamilySearch blog 5 April 2019.
https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/...

An ADVANCED SEARCH accessible from the Main Page, underneath the general Search id required.

The advanced search to have the ability to
search for METADATA such as
Title
Author
Date of publication (not currently captured see below)

The advanced search to have the ability for to look for PHRASES OR WORDS in the text. Typically (but not always) these will be names, so have the options to search for variant spelling, similar sounding words, using wildcards - whatever is in place for searching for names in the Historical records ( including names that may not be regarded as variants by some people such as Macgregor, McGregor and M’Gregor). Cater for non English word with different accents.

Include language as one of the search options.

CAPTURE DATE OF PUBLICATION
See separate topic
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
Enable Search results to be ordered by date of publication and have the option for date of publication to be in ascending order, or descending order.

CAPTURE DATE OF UPLOADING to the Digital Library,
See separate topic
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
Enable Search results to be ordered by date of uploading, Also making browsing possible by date uploaded, so that it is possible to browse through new additions to the Digital Library.

One feature I like in the Internet Archive (Archive.org) regarding display of Search results which I would like to see copied in the FamilySearch Digital Library, is the ABILITY TO SELECT VARIOUS WAYS OF ORDERING THE DATA ACCORDING TO YOUR NEEDS.

As an example using the Advanced Search Bengal (Internet Archive) in the title gives this list
https://archive.org/search.php?query=...

I have selected the results to be ordered by date published, ascending order

If you look at the Sort By bar in the middle of the page there are various categories of sorting, and if you click on Date published there are more options underneath, including Date archived, or the reverse situation is the “default option” At the front of the bar where you can sort by ascending , or descending. This is particularly important if you are looking at date published.

I have selected the results to be ordered by date published, ascending order

You will see that the title, year of publication and author are displayed.

Going back to the Sort by bar, there is an option “show details” which you can select if required.. Next following there are two icons, the first shows the thumbnails of the book cover, the second is to show Search results in a list. Personally I always use the list … [truncated]

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Previous topics which are still relevant, which I have either commenced, or posted in.

"Bugs: FamilySearch Digital Library" including a post about the ZOOM FEATURE
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...
There needs to be a bigger range of Zoom available.

"FS Book reader has wasted space"
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

"Book series microfilms.Request to change from digitised microfilm format to Digital Library format".
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

"FS Digital Library book reader. Show bookmarks function"
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea..."

"FamilySearch Digital Library: Request for Lending Library feature similar to Internet Archive"
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: I would like to suggest that there be a link on every page (main Page, catalogue pages, book reader pages) in the Digital Library to a Feedback section , similar to the way a catalogue entry has a Errors? button to click on (an example https://www.familysearch.org/search/c...)

Especially now, when the Digital Library is under consideration there could be a BIG, HIGHLIGHTED button SEND US YOUR IDEAS and COMMENTS.

I realise that at the bottom of every page on the FamilySearch website there is a Feedback link which goes either to Support, or this Forum, but my suggestion is a Feedback specifically for the Digital Library.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Phil, on the topic "Add Title Search to Digital Library " said October 09, 2019 23:34

"Good news. Many new features will be coming. Maureen all your suggestions have been passed on and we just recently had discussions on improvements. I also asked about the "internet archive" features and they are being looked at. We also have a partnership with "Internet Archive" that will allow more access and several missionaries are doing scanning for both groups. One feature being added as well is when a book has a rights issue we will add links to places if it's available rather than a dead end on the Digital Library pages. So things coming and it will slowly be added to the book pages. You and others have been heard".

That is good news. Thanks Phil

I am hopeful ALL my above requests will be introduced

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A cross reference to the topic "Use of quotes and the boolean AND in FS Digital Library" by Charlie Black dated October 18, 2019 15.30

https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A cross reference to the topic "Book Viewing Window " by
Raechel Lynne Reid dated January o1, 2020 2:22 which said
"Please make the actual viewing area for books larger. It is so small"
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

I would also like to ask that it be possible to increase the size of the text when the "two page" option called "flipping" has been selected. It seems that the two page option has been designed solely to be used to turn pages, and not be used as a way
of reading.

However, sometimes in books a table is spread across two pages and you need to be able to read them together to line up the entries. Currently it is not possible to increase the size of the text in this mode which is a definite disadvantage. In fact none of the adjustments seem possible using the flipping/ two page option. I think all adjustment options should be available whether the one or two page option is selected.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A cross reference to the topic

"When reading books, we need full screen reading without using the browser's full screen. Here's why" by magnoliasouth January 27, 2020 17:25

https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

which said

"My best example is an atlas I'm looking at. I am interested in Germany during a certain time frame. Because of the top toolbar (beginning with Family Tree) and the secondary toolbar (beginning with Records) and the book toolbar at the bottom (beginning with [i]). Then there is another bar that stays on top with the title of the book. All of this only leaves a tiny bit of space to view the map in the atlas.

When I zoom in to see and read the names of cities, towns and villages of Germany, I can only see a few at a time. I would like to see much more of the map. As it is, I have to zoom out then in, then zoom out then in, then zoom out and in again.

Using the brower's full screen does not fix all the toolbars you have on the page. Can you please make a fullscreen with the top toolbars hidden, then the book toolbar hidden, except on hover? This would give us a much larger amount of viewing space"

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A cross reference to the topic
"Feedback on the Book search portion of your site. " by Keelie January 30, 2020 14:13

https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

which said

"The change to the book searching portion of this site is VERY BAD.. It needs to be changed back to old way until you find a NEW method to search your book collection. You cannot search exactly, by author, UNLESS you want to scroll through a bunch of pre-selected choices in what appears RANDOM order. Most individuals do not have ALL DAY to find one periodical.. This way poorly designed and though out change"

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A cross reference to a comment by Melanes May 29, 2020 22:55 on the topic FS Digital Library. Searching within the Digital Library
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

The search results for a keyword style search are greatly lacking without the ability to properly narrow the results. As an example search for Lawrence, Tennessee. The first result is for a person with the last name of Lawrence. There are a handful of results that appear relevant after that, but I know there should be more results than are currently displayed. By page 2 of the results, I am seeing results for anything with the word Lawrence in it.

Selecting Subjects in the left menu to narrow the results, there is no geographic subject to select. Nor can I filter the subject results alphabetically. I know these books were properly cataloged at one point and it was possible to narrow down to a specific location. That appears to be impossible at this point.

I did a second search for an author, Bobby Alford. I get one result that appears correct at the top of the results. But only one. There should be several more. Where are they? There is also no way to sort or narrow down the Creator list.

The search is so frustrating that I have pretty much abandoned using it. Instead I jump over to Worldcat to at least find out if the book is at the Family History library. Unfortunately it does not link me back to the book in the online catalog. I don't quite understand how the search is supposed to function. I am a cataloger at a public library and work with MARC records and an OPAC everyday. This catalog does not function like a library catalog at all and produces very bad results. I am pretty familiar with the different types of search for libraries. Most use Zebra. Some are using ElasticSearch. Only a very few are using Bibframes. What is Family Search doing?

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: FamilySearch, Maureen has tirelessly and regularly documented the issues of lack of search capability in the digitized book section since changes were made a while back. Please respond to her and us as to what you might do to take her educated recommendations and concerns toward solutions.

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: Glad to hear. Would love another update from FamilySearch since issues continue.

LegacyUser

Tom Huber said: I generally ignore the digital library because most (certainly not all) books in which I have an interest are readily available from other sites for download.

In many instances, if the book is from a locale where my ancestors lived for many generations, I already have an electronic or printed copy. If it is available for sale at a reasonable price, I'll buy a copy just to have one, so if more changes make the site(s) unusable, I don't have to depend on them for furthering my research.

LegacyUser

Terra Flores said: The digital library is a very important repository of free and many times rare resources. I hope that FamilySearch makes the current version more usable. The way it functioned a little over a year ago, before the current version, was much more usable and searchable.

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: Family Search employees working on the FS Digital Library (if there are still any such people) may be interested to compare and take note of the advantages and disadvantages of the book readers used by the Internet Archive (Archive.org) and FS Digital Library for the same book

The first example, from the Brigham Young University, is actually the same digital book file
Archive.org version https://archive.org/details/shropshir...
Shropshire parish registers : diocese of St. Asaph.
Underneath the tile it gives a publication date and also says Volume 6

and FS Digital Library version
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...=

In the Information about the book the date of publication is not mentioned and there is no indication it is volume 6 of a series.

Overall I much prefer the Internet Archive book reader, although it has some disadvantages such as not being able to rotate the pages. The Internet Archive reader is also much faster.

Another example for comparison is a book from the Internet Archive Collection
"The Family History Library" (FamilySearch)
https://archive.org/details/lineagebo...
Lineage book, National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution - v. 134 (1916)
this being an actual book from FS Family History Library, with catalogue details being provided by the originating library. Although the book is indicated to be Volume v.134, there is no indication of the date of publication which is 1933.

What seemed a peculiar thing was I could not find this exact same book file on FS Digital Library, (I have posted separately about this, see https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...) but there was a copy originating from Houston Public Library catalogued with a slightly different title
Lineage book of the charter members of the Daughters of the American Revolution, Vol. 134
https://www.familysearch.org/library/...=

See my comments earlier on in this topic about features I believe should be incorporated into the FamilySearch Digital Library

LegacyUser

MaureenE said: A further cross reference to the topic "Use of quotes and the boolean AND in FS Digital Library" by Charlie Black, dated August 08, 2020 01:26 which refers back to his post dated October 18, 2019 15.30

"Please pass to the Digital Library team -- the above issue is only PARTLY resolved now.

The search tool now defaults to finding books that contain ALL of the search words (that's great - thank you). But once a book is selected, the search within the book still defaults to finding ANY of the search words (that's bad).

Also, I'll reiterate my previous suggestion to add a help link to the Digital Library page. The Digital Library has wonderful material but it isn't of much value to the novice without some basic instructions".
https://getsatisfaction.com/familysea...

See my comments earlier on in this topic about features I believe should be incorporated into the FamilySearch Digital Library.

Is there still a Digital Library team, or has it been disbanded?