Good morning, Please could you offer me some advice? My several times Gt. grandfather Samuel C
Please could you offer me some advice?
My several times Gt. grandfather Samuel Charles was born in Swansea in around 1795.
Good morning,
Please could you offer me some advice?
My several times Gt. grandfather Samuel Charles was born in Swansea in around 1795. He turned up later in life in Wellington Shropshire in 1841 and 1851 as an iron Miner.
The census for the period states clearly that he was born in Swansea but I cannot locate any evidence of his birth. I have been searching for many years now but without any result.
The records seem to get better over the years; please can you direct me to any information that might be of help to me?
Thank you so much.
Mike Charles Rev.OSJ Emeritus.
Answers
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@mike j charles
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Mike
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G'Day
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I gather that this is who you are referring to in "Family Tree" of 'FamilySearch':
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Samuel CHARLES
[ Originally ]
( 1795, Wales ▬ 1856, Wellington, Shropshire, England ) ... [ by you ]
[ NOW, Changed to ... ]
( 8 August 1787, Hopton Wafers, Shropshire, England, United Kingdom ▬
.. January 1856, Wellington, Shropshire, England, United Kingdom )
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MMSG-W8V
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I found him while doing a quick "Search" [and, in relation to those (1841 and 1851) Census' you referred to].
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'Yes' ... 'slim pickings' on the "Christenings" ...
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Just providing 'FamilySearch Person Identifier' (PID) for others ... it may help
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Lets give those with the necessary expertise, a go ...
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Brett
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Good afternoon Brett
Yes that is the man. The Hopton Wafers link is rubbish added by some well meaning woman but totally guess work.
Kind regards.
Mike
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Samuel Charles on Findmypast baptism born Flintshire and we have Patronymics in play
First name(s)Samuel Last name Charles Gender Male Birth year 1796 Baptism year 1796 Baptism date 06 Nov 1796 Baptism place HAWARDEN,FLINT,WALES Father's first name(s)Charles Davies Father's last name-Mother's first name(s)Jane Mother's last name Siddett Place Hawarden County Flintshire Country Wales Record set Wales Births & Baptisms 1541-1907 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
You would have to see where this Charles possible died and married in Flintshire ,look for a will for his father ,look for siblings see where they went ect ect
Another this is South Wales and the Parish record is available to view again look for death marriage in Breconshire area and siblings ,wills ect;
First name(s)Samuel Last name Charles Birth year 1799 Birth date? ? 1799 Baptism year 1799 Baptism date 17 Mar 1799 Place Trallwng County Breconshire Country Wales Father's first name(s)David Mother's first name(s)Margaret Jenkins Page 32 Record set Breconshire Baptisms
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FB%2F916380738%2F1
On a Free reg search There is one in Bilston in Staffordshire so again follow up on him as above County Staffordshire Place Bilston Church name (Links to more information)St Leonard Register type Register entry number-37897 Birth date Baptism date 27 Mar 1796 Person forename Samuel Person sex M Father forename Samuel Mother forename Mary Father surname CHARLES Mother surname Person abode Father occupation Notes Transcribed by Pat Galloway File line number 1418
link to freereg https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5af442c9f493fd496f36f7b5/samuel-charles-baptism-staffordshire-bilston-1796-03-27?locale=en
Just found this one on Findmypast so maybe born in Wales moved to Shropshire with parents and then baptised there ,this happened to one of my ancestors born one place baptised and then baptised in another some years later First name(s)Samuel Last name Charles Gender Male Birth year 1785 Birth place-Baptism year 1791 Baptism date 10 Apr 1791 Place Shrewsbury County Shropshire Country England Father's first name(s)Charles Wilding Father's last name-Mother's first name(s)Frances Mother's last name-Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975 Link to transcription but original needs to be found to check things and the possible Patronymics https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=R_947169961
His death in 1856 on the GRO says age 61 so born c 1795 ?? I know deaths and ages can be wrong ,when did he marry
Good Luck
Pam
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Hello Pam, Thank you so much for your help.Many of my relatives were baptised, married, buried etc at Saint Leonards church, Bilston. Samuel Charles (1796/5) gives his birthplace as Swansea on two census form. He moved to what is today , Telford and married Margaret PRICE at the local Church. He died and was buried in Wellington, Shropshire. His children dispersed to Wolverhampton and Bilston. His birth is troubling because he states specifically Swansea to the enumerator, twice. Given that Hawarden is North Wales and Swansea, South Wales, I had regarded Flint as a none starter. People did not generally move such great distances in those times. I was amazed to see him living in Wellington after being born in Swansea. He was listed as an Iron Miner in Wellington and of course the Industrial revolution was in progress still. I guess that he moved to work in Shropshire. I understand that Swansea was a busy Copper smelting centre so I imagined that there would be work in that industry. Any thoughts? Thank you again. God Bless. Mike
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Hi Mike ,
Interesting as could find no other births in Bilston ie siblings for Samuel so looked for a marriage for the father Samuel and again using Freereg found one in Wolverhampton St Peter which is 2.8 miles from Bilston .
I wonder if at some time the parents possibly moved to Swansea lived there for a while than moved back up to Wellington ?who knows but the Bilston one looks like it needs some research . Andsee if any sibling baptisms in Shropshire or even Swansea area
Marriage of Samuel Charles and Mary Marygold
Marriage entry search made on 17 Jan 2021
Staffordshire Wolverhampton Church St Peter Register entry Marriage date 25 Jan 1795 Groom forename Samuel Groom surname CHARLES Bride forename Mary Bride surname MARYGOLD
Link to Freereg
Freereg found a death for a Samuel no age given in the July 1796 so could be Samuel Senior /Junior or other Burial entry search made on 17 Jan 2021
Field Value County Worcestershire Place Eastham St Peter and St Paul Register type Register entry number Burial date 28 Jul 1796 Burial person forename Samuel Burial person surname CHARLES
So the Parish records would again be useful
Regards Pam
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Mike,
One thing to consider is that Samuel Charles in the 1841 census was reported to be born in Shropshire. The 1851 census shows him to be born in Swansea. The gap between his possible birth in Swansea and his marriage in Shropshire will be difficult to fill. I suggest that you expand your search for his birth to the parishes surrounding Swansea. Llangyfelach is one to specifically include in your searches. Be sure to include the nonconformist chapels in the vicinity. One of the options to make a connection between Swansea and Shropshire is to search the probate abstracts for the Swansea area looking for people with the last name Charles mentioning Samuel Charles or his family in Shropshire. The pre 1858 Welsh probate abstracts are on Findmypast and FamilySearch. The search may work differently so you may want to search both versions of the Welsh probate abstracts. The beneficiaries mentioned in the wills, along with their residences are one of the few sources that can help solve the type of research problem you are dealing with.
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Many thanks Darris for your suggestions. I have been struggling with this brick wall for years now but cannot break through. The two census records are important in that in one the enumerator says Swansea very specifically and Swant* in the other. Was Samuel lying? I can see no reason for thinking so. There are other Samuel Charles in Shropshire who would fit the bill but I cannot find any evidence that it is the same Samuel. One nearby in Hopton Wafers turns out to be of a different line altogether. There are Charles's in Swansea but I cannot find any record of my relative in the established church or the non-conformist chapels. He married in the C of E church; I know that this fact does not prove anything but generally if you were raised chapel you remained chapel. The Welsh probate records tell me nothing unfortunately. Some years ago a lady did tell me that she had a link to a family member from Saint Mary's Swansea but when I explored it the dates were too far adrift. Thank you again dear Sir. I will crack this Brick waal before I leave this veil of tears. God Bless. Mike
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At the time when Samuel Charles married the law required all marriages to be performed in the Church of England except Quakers and Jews (1754-1837). The fact that his children show up in Church of England records is not enough evidence to point to church over chapel for the birth/christening record of Samuel.
Some of the chapel christening records in the Swansea area are very incomplete for the time period when Charles was born. Some families traveled a unimaginable distance to attend chapel which means the search should expand to at least the parishes (and chapels in those parishes) adjacent to Swansea.
One thread or clue you might explore in a different way is the occupation that Samuel had. You should look at the book Copperopolis and Industrial Archeaology of the Swansea Region which may help identify places where iron miners were employed. These may also help identify an employer with connections to Shropshire that may have enabled a move from Swansea to Shropshire. If you can learn where the iron miners were working in the Swansea area you may be able to refine your searches for the Charles family in the Swansea region. You may need to spread out as far as Neath and Llanelly for this family.
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MANY THANKS DARRIS. THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU YOU HAVE SHARED IS GREAT! MIKE
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