Hello All, I would appreciate any advice on locating the father of my 2nd great grandfather, Rein d
I would appreciate any advice on locating the father of my 2nd great grandfather, Rein de Roos. I have trees on Ancestry, MyHeritage and FamilySearch.
Rein was born 15 Jan 1867, Leeuwarden and died 16 Nov 1917, Ontswedde.
Yolette Stewart
Rein's mother's name was Jantje de Roos. Her first husband died young and she had two children by him. After a ten year gap she had another two boys Matthijs and Rein but both take her surname and there appears to be no name of the father on the birth certificate. Is there any way at all of discovering who this person was? I suspect he may have been English as my mother who is Dutch (migrated here to Australis in 1950 with her parents) has about 20% English in her DNA test. What kind of situation could Jantje have been in to have two boys on her own and get them to take her name? Any help or guidance on the matter would be greatly appreciated - Yolette Stewart
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MQVN-X98
Answers
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The birthcertificate shows the midwife and the mother as to declare the birth of the child,Rein,so , indeed,not a father in sight.
https://www.openarch.nl/frl:620b0201-e825-0f61-d0f8-9ea071affddf
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And here, also the father is listed under 1) as "onbekend" unknown
https://www.openarch.nl/frl:829395ae-3a95-4227-ad27-67350c59f093
Rein's occupation is listed as wijnkoper/knecht Buyer of wine, helping hand.
The best of luck you could get is if he appears in other trees.
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Adrien, thank you for your efforts. Yolette.
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Many of the links here, at your right hand, could be of service for you.Like this one =>
Allefriezen
https://allefriezen.nl/zoeken/persons?ss={"q":"rein de roos"}
Hit Rein De Roos at the prompt...follow the results.
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Yolette, I am not so convinced about English roots/and DNA, as the North sea was not always a gap that separates England from the rest of Europe.A great many people
in Gr Britain have Anglo-Saxon dna with a big part Dutch in it.There are some explanations for this,..
Before and during the last ice age the water level in the North sea was much lower than it is today, because the vast masses of ice held it frozen, depleting the ocean.The rest of the ice-sheet made such a pressure on the soil in Scandinavia and further that the land itself was lifted so much that people could actually walk the distance from The Netherlands towards England keeping dry feet during low tides.Only after the last Weichselien(last ice age),and the melting of the ice, the ocean filled up so far.Secondary, due to the decline in pressure of the melting ice sheets, the relative
level of the seabed changed dramatically.So The North sea was given this shape later on, Some 11700 yrs ago.That is probably the main reason of this merger of Anglo-Saxon dna and Dutch dna.
In your case , i would not bet on English dna...But go for Dutch roots.
it is not impossible, however.
Adrie
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My guess would be Bernardus van Weemen van Noord.
He was only 3 years older than Janje and a witness for the both Reins birth and marriage. (I've attached both records to the familysearch tree.)
Maybe something to look into.
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Thank you so much Adrien - I am working through these slowly. I have seen and looked into these a long time ago but a fresh look will be good for me. My Dutch is better now than it was before for starters! I really appreciate all of your help. Kind regards and gratitude, Yolette
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Wow, I really appreciate this history. I had not known this! I do not always put a huge amount of stock in the DNA but had wondered if Jantje had an affair with a seaman or something. My own DNA results are hugely different between Ancestry who says I am 59% British (mum married a man who was mostly British/Scottish in ancestry) and MyHeritage who says I am 74% British/Scottish. Each site also has pretty big differences between my Dutch/Scandinavian heritage! Nevertheless I am glad for some knowledge of where I come from as mum is an only child and did not have much family heritage handed down to her; her own mother passed away when she was ten so this disrupted a lot of things in our family. Will follow your advice - thank you so much...very grateful. Yolette.
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Hello ThieboutDelabie, I had recalled Bernardus was a witness at the birth but had not realized he was also present at the marriage of Rein. I will definitely look into this. This is a fantastic clue - thank you, very grateful. Yolette.
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Can you pay attention to the terms in the header of next article?, very interesting article for your case.
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Thiebout, dat is inderdaad een mogelijkheid ,en zelfs geen kleintje, ik hou er in dat soort gevallen altijd rekening mee dat in die tijd er veel getuigen waren die gewoon getuige waren van beroep, en dikwijls kun je ze dan ook vinden op andere huwelijken in hetzelfde boek,kwestie om het verschil te kunnen maken met gerelateerde getuigen,sommigen waren gewoon in afwachting rond de gemeentehuizen en cafés op afroep om een fooi te verdienen.Mensen waren over het algemeen erg arm in die tijd.
Ik had het niet opgemerkt , trouwens, en je frans is duidelijk beter dan het mijne!
Groeten, Adrie
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Bedankt voor het leuke weetje, was leuk dit te horen.
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Fantastic article thankyou very much Adrien.
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Yes, indeed, the highlights of it , to memorise, are the different suggested pathways to explain the resemblance that there is in the Frisian/English/anglo-saxon dna.
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I somehow missed this discussion earlier.
I'm half Dutch, and get 76% English with MyHeritageDNA, and only 10% "North and Western European".
The language most closely related to English is Frisian, and there's the saying "Bread, butter and green cheese is good English and good Fries". The pronunciation in both languages is incredibly similiar.
Yvette Hoittink has a good article on finding unknown fathers: https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/how-to-find-the-father-of-an-illegitimate-child/
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Thanks, good article indeed, i stored it in my bookmarks to use the tips in it.
A good way to get the Frisian vocals and pronouncement in your finger and your ears, is listening to their music,..
"Twarres" sings in Frisian dialect/patois and became famous here in Belgium/Holland/Suriname, even in the French part of Belgium btw. Printing the lyrics and listening on youtube accordingly,learn to go with the song, and the Frisian comes along..
They made several nr 1 hits here.
Like Wer Bisto..lovely music
Twarres =twins or two-times as in double.
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https://www.wiewaswie.nl/nl/detail/36173120
Burgelijke Stand Geboorte met Rein de Roos
Kind Rein de Roos
Geboortedatum 15-01-1867
Geslacht Man
Moeder Jantje de Roos
Gebeurtenis Geboorte
Datum 15-01-1867
Documenttype BS Geboorte
Erfgoedinstelling AlleFriezen
Plaats instelling Leeuwarden
Collectiegebied Friesland
Archief 1002
Registratienummer 3416
Aktenummer 0032
Registratiedatum 17-01-1867
Akteplaats Leeuwarden
Collectie Archiefnaam: Gemeentebestuur van Leeuwarden, 1811-1941 - Historisch Centrum Leeuwarden, Bron: boe...
Boek Geboorteregister 1867
AkteSoort Geboorteakte
See also:
https://allefriezen.nl/zoeken/deeds/620b0201-e825-0f61-d0f8-9ea071affddf
Good luck!
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Yolette, who was the first husband and when did he die? Generally speaking (!) when no husband is mentioned, there was none. Seeing that she was widowed and had two children to support, she probably had to work and sadly, sometimes the person she may have been working for, may have gotten her pregnant and often the mother would refuse to mention the father in case of a backlash. Sorry about that, but that was often the case. Good luck with your research, but it looks like that will be one of those questions that may never be solved.
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Yolette, look here as well and see who all those people "de Roos are related to her.
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Hello There
Thank you very much for this. I have seen Yvette's article on this topic and it is very good. I do follow her articles as they are very informative and interesting. Very interesting to hear about your DNA breakdowns. I had my DNA test done through ancestry and then got myheritage to anaylze the raw data too. Ancestry says I am 59% English/Scottish but myheritage says I am closer to 72% English which also reduces my Germanic/European breakdown. I had not realized English and Dutch DNA were so similar until these discussions, so many thanks again!
Kind regards, Yolette
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Thank you so much for this information Gerda! Yes I do have a copy of these certificates attached to Rein on ancestry.com and have looked very closely at them. Thank you so much!
Yolette
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Hello Gerda
Thank you very much for this reply. Her first husband was Diemer Visser (1827 - 1855) and she had two children to him, Jan Visser and Minke Visser. Diemer died quite young, 5 days after the birth of their second child I believe. A lot of family trees have incorrectly listed Rein (1867-1917) and his brother Matthijs (1864-1915) as being the children of Diemer but researchers have not checked the birth dates of Matthijs and Rein who were born about ten years after Diemer's death. I have learned that Matthijs was a barber by trade and spent some time in prison for minor misdemeanors. I understand all of what you are saying.
ThiebouteDelabie noticed that a witness present at Rein's birth, Bernardus van Weeman van Noord was also present at Rein's marriage so thought this may have been a clue. Since these conversations I have been researching Bernardus more closely and have found to my surprise that his children, his sibling's children and also many of his cousins children died or did not have babies so it is quite possible his entire lineage died out, unless he is the father to Rein and Matthijs as he is also listed as a witness on Matthijs' birth certificate. Matthijs, I understand did not marry so there was no chance for Bernardus to be witness to his marriage. It is all very interesting. I do wonder how Jantje survived under such circumstances.
Any and all thoughts are greatly valued!
Yolette
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Thank you so much, am working through these although I have a fairly good picture of her family tree through ancestry where my tree surrounding Jantje is much stronger. Yolette
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