Not sure if two profiles should be merged?
Two profiles appear to be same person but there are differences making me question this:
1- Ollie Lester Hollabaugh (L78S-QZ6) - clear source (Texas Births) shows birth in Ellis, Texas to William Franklin Hollabaugh and Isabella NcNutt (LKS2-VYS) on 10 Dec 1889 - Spouse: Jennie Morgan. However, record is linked to Frederick William Hollabaugh (LKS2-VT3) as father. US Census sources show Ollie was born in Tenn. FindaGrave also shows birth in Ellis, Texas to Frederick Hollabaugh.
2- Ollie Lester Hollabaugh (9XVT-75N) - shows birth in Waynesboro, Tenn. (source: WWI Draft Card) to Frederick William Hollabaugh (LKS2-VT3) as father and Isabella NcNutt (LKS2-VYS) as mother - Spouse: Mary Paris.
Confused by different fathers, different birth places, conflicting sources. Perhaps mother had two different husbands? I realize that some sources can be inaccurate, especially US Census records.
Any help would be appreciated.
Answers
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@combblai - something is odd about the "clear source" showing a birth in Texas for L78S-QZ6. If you go to that profile and look at the atached 1889 source record, it says "This record was a duplicate and has been retired. We recommend using the most current copy."
The original (and currently attached) source record is from "Texas, Births and Christenings, 1840-1981" and is on https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F6P4-9Y5 It says:
Event Date 10 Dec 1889
Event Place Ellis, Texas, United States
Event Place (Original) Ellis, Ellis, Texas, United StatesIf you click on the link to the supposed current copy (I say "supposed" because I have had bad experiences with so-called duplicates in the UK)… the "current copy" is still in "Texas, Births and Christenings, 1840-1981" and is on https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4LVJ-3LZM That record says:
Event Date 10 Dec 1889
Event Place Waynesboro, Wayne, Tennessee, United States
Event Place (Original) Waynesboro, Wayne, TennesseeYes, that's what it says - even though this is a collection of Texas registrations the birth was in Tennessee… Now if this was England, that would make no sense to me, but it isn't England, so I don't know but there appear to be two major possibilities:
- The Tennessee place on the 2nd index has been indexed spectacularly incorrectly;
- The birth took place in Tennessee but was registered in Texas - presumably in the Ellis area?
No doubt there are other possibilities.
If the first index says "Ellis, Texas" simply because that's where the birth was registered but the second index is correct in saying that the birth was elsewhere, then that might account for why your two profiles say "Ellis, Texas" for one and "Waynesboro, Tennessee" for the other.
What you simply have to do if you want to resolve this is get hold of a copy of the original document and see whether the original says that the birth was in Tennessee but registered in Texas.
If you don't do that, you are piling guesses on top of guesses. As an example of the traps, you say that FindAGrave shows the birth is in Mountain Peak, Ellis County, Texas, USA. FindAGrave is highly misleading on this. The only thing I trust in FindAGrave is the image of the gravestone. That is actually very nice in this case because it shows the exact dates of birth and death. The rest - birthplace, names of parents, etc, has no sources and therefore cannot be trusted. Suppose all that stuff came from FamilySearch FamilyTree? You'd be trying to use FindAGrave to justify the values in FSFT when the FindAGrave values came from FSFT in the first place, so of course they'd match.
Best of luck with this - but to reiterate, you need the original. It's the only way to treat the chap respectfully.
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@Adrian Bruce1 Those Texas births masquerading as English births have shown up in my close family, with no connection to England - at least not in the previous 250 years. Several brothers in the same family
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VRSG-X9M
Name: Walter S. Burgess
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date:
Baptism/Christening Place:
Birth Date: 09 Oct 1878
Birthplace: Brenham, Washington Co , Texas
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thadus M. Burgess
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Martha Eliza Bennett
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00023-2
System Origin: Texas-ODM
Source Film Number: 1769248 IT 1-5
Reference Number:
Collection: Texas, Births and Christenings, 1840-1981A probable coding error in transcription created this:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V52V-PQS
Name: Walter S. Burgess
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date:
Baptism/Christening Place:
Birth Date: 09 Oct 1878
Birthplace: BYWELL SAINT PETER, NORTHUMBERLAND, ENGLAND
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thadus M. Burgess
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Martha Eliza Bennett
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00023-2
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 1769248 IT 1-5
Reference Number:
Collection: England, Births and Christenings, 1538-19752 -
Ouch - that is a spectacularly incorrect indexing, to use my own terminology... (The film number confirms that the data is indeed Texan). Just goes to demonstrate further that doing this chap honour means looking at the original and not following one path simply because it feels good...
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On the bright side, your mention of that record set reminded me to check to see if I could view those records. It's been a while since I worked on that Texas branch. And, yes, I can see them now!
They are delayed birth registrations.
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It looks pretty suspicious that these are the same two people but I agree that you need to see the original image of everything that has a birth place and work out what is going on.
I would also suggest you search for Jennie Morgan and her three children in the 1920 census. If you can find them and they are living with a different husband and step-father, that is a bit of evidence in your favor. If you find them and they are still living with Ollie, then you have an even bigger problem to sort out.
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My apologies for the sidetrack of your thread with my example. But, I've looked up that delayed birth registration for Ollie Lester Hollabaugh.
The delayed registration took place in Texas but is documenting the birth in Tennessee. I have a few like that in my family where someone had moved from their place of birth and needed to have a birth registration for legal purposes.
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A great example of how critical it is to not rely on indexes and how vital the original records are.
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Well done, Áine. It took me a lot longer to crack the Texan coding system!
The full version of the Delayed Registration in question is on image 1356 of film 7620929.
The key (figuratively and literally) lies on film 4013157. Both those film numbers appear when you click "Check Image Availability" for the two source records - but it says words to the effect of - you'll have to browse the film yourself… With over 1000 images on each film, no thanks.
So you have to read the images of the actual books. Fear not - bureaucrats who filed paper away did so in a manner that meant they could find it all again, without a computer. That means they had manually compiled indexes to this stuff. But the index is seldom in alphabetic order. The most you can hope for is stuff being collected on (say) the first 3 letters of the alphabet. However, in this case, image 1010 of film 4013157, shows the patterns used for surnames beginning, H, I, J, K. The bit that confused me the first time was that certain very common names are pulled out of order but general names beginning Hol-Hom are on "page" 27. But it's not a page - it's a reference in the top corner, and if you plough thru the "pages" marked 27, you eventually find the index for Ollie's own delayed birth - this index, by the way, must be the source for the original FS Source Record, now supposedly retired. The index then points you to p380 of volume 71. Use the catalog to find film 7620929 images (again) and then find the item for volume 71 - navigate to p380, and there you are.
If you followed the above, well done - but the essential lesson is that it's (in this case) possible to read through the original images - but they're seldom laid out in A-Z order.
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@Adrian Bruce1 I "cheated" a bit. Once I had the DGS # from combblai's original post, I plugged that in Full-Text Search. Since it's an uncommon name, I had the record in a flash.
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Ah - I've only used Full Text Search a couple of times so I had no suspicion it might help here...
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I've been using it a great deal. I realize it is, for now, more applicable for US records, although it is spreading. It's been helpful often enough that I find it worth the minute or two to try it first. If it doesn't work because the particular record set or DGS is not yet available, I've lost nothing. If it does work, Halleleujah! and I've saved time.
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Thank you for your assistance!
My plan:
1- Use Snipping Tool to grab image of Birth Cert and add it as a memory for Ollie Lester Hollabaugh (9XVT-75N) [DONE] Note: Death Cert source document also shows birth in Tenn.
2- Merge the two profiles (9XVT-75N & L78S-QZ6) keeping the Tennessee birth information. Spouses are separated by 10 years and no children cross the marriage dates of the other.Possible Problems: Birth certificate above shows father as "William Franklin Hollabaugh" with mother as "Isabel McNutt". Death certificate shows father as "W F Hollabaugh" with same mother. 1900 US Census shows father as Fred W Hollabaugh. FindaGrave for Ollie shows "Frederick William Hollabaugh" as father.
Also, some sources show mother's last name as "Nutt", while other sources has "McNutt". Both birth & death certs show McNutt, while FindaGrave shows "Nutt". Under "Isabelle Catherine Nutt" sources in FSFT, 9 reference "Nutt" and 12 reference "McNutt". 😂
Note: "Ollie Lester Hollabaugh" is in the same graveyard as "Frederick William Hollabaugh" and "Isabelle Catherine Nutt", per FindaGrave. Of course, FindaGrave may have mother's maiden name wrong. Obit on FindaGrave for mother has a surviving son names "Ollie" but doesn't mention her parents.Any further advise would be appreciated! ❤️
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