1939 England and Wales Register
For the past couple of days I'm not getting any search results for people in the 1939 England and Wales Register and it no longer appears as an option in the search's Collection filter. For people with a source already attached from the 1939 Register I can still access the record and it redirects me to FindMyPast for the image as it did before, but now I can't seem to get any results from the Register to attach it as a source in FamilySearch. Has FamilySearch's access to the Register changed?
Answers
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From a public account, I've never been able to access the collection from home. If you want to view the FamilySearch version I believe you have always needed to be at a FamilySearch building. I haven't visited a centre for some time, but one of my main purposes in previous visits was to attach the 1939 N.R. sources to Family Tree IDs, knowing that I would still be able to open them once I got back home.
So, in short, I don't think there's been any change in access. As you appear to have found, the page at https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/collection/2836130 does now allow for any searches from within the collection from home. Perhaps, in the past, you viewed the collection when you were at a FamilySearch Centre.
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Well now I'm really confused because I've never done my research at a center, so I know that all the sources I've attached came up in searches I've done from home - not by searching from within the collection, but from using the main records search page. Up to and including three days ago I was getting search results from the Register and attaching them just like a census record (or any other record for that matter), but two days ago it stopped coming up in the search results and it no longer appears in the 'Filter by Collection' list in the search page. 🤔 I just wondered where it went.
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If TBaker4971 you are a LDS Church member you may have had a higher level of access than Paul W, who I think has said in the past that he was not a LDS Church member. He does say "From a public account…"
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@TBaker4971 The collection is still there but the index is missing. Hopefully this is temporary. I will see what I can find out.
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I've been experiencing the same problem.
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I've been having the same problem with all the Scotland censuses — 1841–1901.
The records that have already been attached are still attached, but the indexes have disappeared and don't show up in the search results.
I was attaching census records on Feb 20th, and on Feb 21st all the indexes were just GONE.
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@Karen_VS - I just checked what I can see in the list of collections on the page for Search Historical Records. I can't see any Scotland censuses on my (non-LDS) account. But I don't remember ever using them - when I checked my GG GF in the tree, he only has one Scottish census, attached by the FamilySearch user in 2017. (Not sure what that means for that date). He's actually in the Scottish censuses from 1841 to 1891, which I found outside FamilySearch and have recorded on my desktop pc.
I'm sure that I would have attached the others if they had been available.
However, I'm slightly surprised that the Scottish censuses were available to you in the first place as Scotland's People keeps a tight hold on them. Obviously something was available at some point for that one census to be attached to GG GF but I wonder if they are Family History Centre only? I assume that you weren't at an FHC when attaching those indexes, so I wonder if they got out accidentally and FS have now corrected the permissions?
Always difficult to tell what the situation should be as FamilySearch seem oddly reluctant to say what their permissions are.
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Yes, it would be helpful if those posting on a change in access to these two collections could come back and confirm whether they were using Church accounts, rather than public ones. As with the 1939 N.R. collection, I agree with Adrian that it appears never to have been possible to access the Scottish census records from a public account whilst at home. There could have been a "blip" (as Adrian implies) whereby, for a brief period restrictions were lifted, but I have been using FamilySearch records from at least 2012 and have always had to attend a FHC to add any sources to Family Tree from either collection. To reiterate the point, once added (by yourself or anyone else) the sources will open once one is at home.
One interesting thing relating to "permissions" is that by signing in to ScotlandsPeople one can view the "LDS version" of the 1881 set for free, whereas it is not possible to view those records on the FamilySearch website! However, I have find a similar situation applies on the Find My Past website. I do not have a subscription, but can view many marriage records, which appear "Courtesy of FamilySearch Intl.", which again are not available on the FamilySearch site.
Again I agree with Adrian that it might be helpful if we were given a little more background about how permissions / restrictions are operated. FamilySearch would not have to give detailed information that would disclose the content of individual contracts, just some insight as to the general arrangements / considerations that turn out affecting our access rights to certain records.
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Presumably two factors *might* affect visibility of indexes and / or images. Firstly (and apologies to anyone who knows all this already) is the account an LDS account? (mine isn't)
Secondly, is the attempt to enquire or attach done at a Family History Centre? (I've never been to an FHC - I have been to Affiliates but have never tried to access Family Tree from one).
I'd phrase my desire for knowledge slightly differently from Paul. Like Paul, I don't want to know contract details (zero expectation of them, in fact). So I don't want to know how much cash - or services in lieu - FamilySearch pays to the controller of a data collection.
What I would like to see is a simple set of statements about where the index and the images of a particular FS collection are visible. For instance, XXXshire Parish Registers - index available freely; images only at FHCs and Affiliates plus anywhere on an LDS Account.
Clearly FS knows this stuff because it sets up that access (errors and omissions excepted).
As it is, the collection descriptions tend to say things like "This collection may not be available because we have Contracts". Well, yes, most of us know that, it's the details about a particular collection we need so that we can either make arrangements to go to an FHC or investigate whether our local library has access to a commercial database. No use arranging a trip to an FHC if, when we get there, we find the stuff is only accessible to LDS accounts. (I'm not implying that happens but it might - I don't know).
I recognise that things may change over time but it would be nice to be able to check without hassling FS Support, Community Moderators, etc.
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I've been accessing the 1939 Register for years from home. I'm a member of the church so I've never needed to go to a Family Search center before. As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any news about changes in contracts or communication about changes in access. It would be nice to know if access to the Register will be restored.
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The permissions currently are at home access for LDS members and FS Center/Affiliated Library for non-members. Engineering is looking into this but I have no updates as yet.
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@SerraNola - thank you for finding that information. Just the sort of thing I'd like to see!
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Yes, how difficult would it be to show that sort of summary everywhere? This needs a Suggest an Idea, I shall submit one.
Thank you @SerraNola.
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Oh, I should have specified — I do have an LDS church account.
And up through February 20th, all the Scottish census indexes from 1841 to 1901 were searchable and attachable from my home computer.
I actually didn't know how many different permissions permutations there are. Sorry I was confusingly vague!
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Here's my Idea (submitted, but copied here so people can see it):
Make Image and Record access rules clear to users
SITUATION:
At present, if Image(s) are unavailable to a user, they frequently cannot tell from the displayed error message whether this is because of who they are (LDS v non-LDS), their current location, because they or other item(s) in the collection are too recent, other issues, or some combination of these. Further, it is not clear to the user how (or indeed whether) they can obtain access.Where the user does not have access to Record(s), there is no error message at all, just a confusing failure to obtain any search results.
Meanwhile the relevant permissions information must be available to FS, otherwise they wouldn't be able to grant/refuse access accurately in the first place.
NEED:
Provide a clear statement of why this user cannot access this information from this location at this time, and explain what steps they can take to obtain access.OUTCOME:
Users would be able to plan their research trips with considerably reduced uncertainty.
Users would be aware of potential permissions-related gaps in Record search results and of how to plug them.BENEFIT:
This would
a) allow FS users to plan FHC/affiliate/SLC visits more effectively
b) save FHC staff time
c) improve FS user perception by improving clarity and thus reducing disappointment
d) improve FT data quality by ensuring Sources were not missed for permissions-related reasonsExample 1: Access to IGI source Image
See https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M61C-FM2?lang=en
Image is in this set: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G97M-86ZC?wc=WWF8-FM7%3A352087901%2C352467901%26cc%3D2060211&cc=2060211&lang=en
Error message received by non-LDS user (both from home and at local FHC) is:
Images Available
To view these images do one of the following:
You may be able to view this image by visiting one of our partners' sites or the legal record custodian (fees may apply).
This image is in fact available to LDS users (discovered via experiment by local FHC staff member).
Example 2: Searching the 1939 England and Wales Register
See this discussion: [link to the present thread]
In this case the issue is that no search results at all are being returned for non-LDS users, while they are for LDS users. The non-LDS user has no idea that this is the situation.
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@MandyShaw1 - it's not just FHC staff who would benefit but also FS Support and Community Moderators.
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