In this birth record why doesn't the mother's name appear ?
I also can't find where the father, Tomas's age is recorded.
What I get is that the father, Tomas is 'mayor de edad' which I understand as 'of full age'. And the son is 'hijo natural' so illegitimate. It is unusual to give a father and not a mother. But I have seen it before.
Someone in the @Investigación Genealógica group might be more certain of what it is saying.
"Al margen: Nº 354, trescientos cincuenta y cuatro. José Moreno.
En el cuerpo: En Zacatecas, a 20 de marzo de 1894, a las 4 y tres cuartos de la tarde, (16:45), ante el juez del Estado Civil, ciudadano José de la Rosa Romo, compareció Tomás Moreno, soltero, mayor de edad (tenía más de 18 años), empleado público, de esta vecindad (vivía en Zacatecas) y expuso: que pide conste que el niño que presenta vivo es hijo natural suyo, que nació en esta ciudad el día 2 del actual..." (por si queréis traducirlo)
No aparece el nombre de la madre por estar casada con otro hombre. Los hijos de las mujeres casadas, automáticamente, le adjudicaban la paternidad al esposo. Si el padre biológico del niño quería reconocerlo por cuestiones de herencia o similares, no quedaba más remedio que "eliminar" a la madre... No sé si aclaré algo o lo compliqué más...
PS/ @Anne LoForte Willson tenemos que aprender idiomas 😂
I appreciate both of you responding to my query. Wonder why the mother didn't keep the baby and pretend it was her husbands..unless he was dead. Does the rest of the document say anything about the circumstances or are they just witnesses. I used Google translate to understand your post Berta.
Well, sometimes They could tell very clearly by dates that the child wasn't the husband's.
I know a baptism inscription in which it says that the boy was "legitimate son of marriage although the husband has been in Cuba for 4 years"
I also use the Google translator 😂
I am confused..as you saying that this document I sent for translation contains the statement about being the legitimate son of marriage .... I don't see where that sentence occurs. Thanks for your help.
I think we need to clarify something. The expression "hijo natural" ONLY means that the parents of the child are not married at the moment he/she is born. We can not make any other assumptions or suppositions.
The name "Jose Moreno" with some variations or additions is very common. For that reason it is very important to make the searching of the whole family members. For example: In the Mexico's Census 1930 in Zacatecas, Zacatecas, Mexico, I found one Jose Moreno, 36 years old. married with Jovita Montanez 32 years old, with a daugther Maria of 8 years old. It also states that he was a machine operator in a mine.
If you know who was Jose Moreno's wife, you can search for the marriage certificate and there maybe you can find Jose Moreno's parents. Also try to find the certificate of death of Jose Moreno.
Good point.. this Jose Moreno came to the US married in Los Angeles in 1923 and died there in 1980.
I hope Berta can tell me where she found this baptism..I have been unable to locate it. ALSO I found another child from Tomas without a mother 2 yrs earlier.. I have attached it in case there is some additional info there that can help me know this man's story. Hoping his age is buried in there somewhere.
Thank you all for your efforts..
¡Hola @paredespdaniel1 paredespdaniel1 !
Efectivamente, un hijo natural implica que los padres no estaban casados.
Mi comentario se refería, únicamente, a los casos en los que figura la madre como "desconocida" o simplemente no aparece el nombre.
Antes, los hijos de cualquier mujer casada se asignaban automáticamente al esposo, de ahí el ejemplo que comenté, de un Bautismo de Ortigueira, donde el Párroco, un poco cotilla, hace constar la ausencia del padre desde hacía 4 años de la localidad donde nació el niño.
La única manera que tenían los padres, de los hijos de mujeres casadas con otro hombre, de reconocer a sus hijos era que no figurase el nombre de la madre. Por cuestiones de herencia, sobre todo, se solía hacer esto.
From the 4th line it says that: "Mr. Tomás Moreno, single, public employee, of legal age, from this neighborhood and explained: that he requests that it be stated that the girl he presents alive is his natural daughter". .
In other words, in 1892, Tomás Moreno was single.
Thanks .. 2 children 2 years apart with no mother mentioned..but I know to be the same woman..as years later at marriage and death they her.
I now understand the baptism you refer to was not Jose Moreno's.
Can't find Tomas death..that document could clarify things.
If you tell us the ID of the person you are interested in, we can try to help you.
The Tomas Moreno in these birth notices I would hope to find his death note.
I believe his birth- attached--only has his mother's name..exact opposite of his children.
Suzanne, I found something that maybe is the answer. In the Civil Registration of Zacatecas, Mexico Film 798284 in the images 434 & 435 of 561, on August 24th,1895, we learn of one Tomas Moreno, public employee, single, 26 years old, is getting married to Maria Concepcion Soto, 14 years old. Tomas was the son of Jose Maria Moreno, a merchant, and Dolores Cervantes. The ceremony was performed at the Moreno's Home. In my opinion, Tomas, never married to Jose's mother, instead accepted his paternity. We can't know the reason Tomas didn't mentioned the Jose's mother name. Jose grew up with his mother but always knew that Tomas Moreno was is father. When he got married with Maria de la Luz Guillen in 1923, he gave the names of both of his parents: Tomas Moreno and Refugio Macias.
Jose appears in the Census of 1930 in L.A. with his wife "Suz" (Luz) and three children: Josephine, Efraim and Soledad. Occupation: "Tailor"
Jose Crossed the border in 1920 at El Paso, TX but declared having been in US since April 19, 1917. His occupation "Tailor".
I hope this has been helpful.
Yes this looks like him !!!
Family stated that Jose had half siblings.
To have 2 Tomas Morenos in the same city with the same job of the same age is just too improbable.
Getting married right after his 2nd child born also makes sense in that who is going to raise these children.
Suzanne, I don't want bother you, but I found a Death Certificate of a woman whose name was Maria Refugio Macias. The Certificate Number is 657, March 16, 1894. Age: 21 years old. Single. But, Death Cause was "Septisema Puerperal" (puerperal sepsis, or septicaemia). It means that she was pregnant and maybe she gave birth a child. The person who gave notice said he was her brother in law. Unfortunately there is no mention of a child. The names of Maria Refugio's parents: Dionisio Macias Valades and Guadalupe de la Torre.
Jose was born March 2 and registered March 20. I am not sure but it is a possibility. Who raised the orphan? Who told him his mother's name? Under what name was he baptized in the Catholic Church?, if he was. Family history is full of questions and stories.
Image 154 of 615 Registro Civil Defunciones 1894, Zacatecas, Mexico Page 122 Film 799959
You are definitely not bothering me.
I did find this entry for Maria Refugio Macias and believe this is the woman I was looking for...but like your translation of the cause of death better than mine..I thought it was "falleció de septicemia principal" which is death by sepsis..now that you translate it as "septisemia puerperal" ..I see that clearly. You were able to read that the person giving the report as her "brother in law"..what is his name..my translation skills are poor. He was told that his mother "died in childbirth". His father married the following year so his new wife (14 y/o) Maria Concepcion Soto raised him, his older sister Maria Micaela, and her two sons. I was able to track mother Guadalupe de la Torre to the 1930 census living in Zacatecas with his older sister Micaela (her granddaughter) ..so everything fit together.
I have yet to find Tomas's death but it was after 1943..cuz he went to visit his son in Los Angeles then. By all accounts he was a harsh man.
I thank you for taking such an interest in my research..your help solved a long held mystery.
Stay well ..Sue
You are very welcome. Refugio's brother in law name was Esteban Salinas.
Good luck in your research.
I have progressed in my research to an 1804 birth record..I hope you don;t mind if I request help in understanding the content..I think I see that the child is a "mulato" what does it say about the parents..does it indicate if they are mixed race .
Thanks..hope this is not an imposition.
Yes, that's correct. Before Mexico's Independence from Spain, the priests were required by law to register the race of everybody who was baptized, got married or deceased. There were many classifications but for simplifying we can mention: Spaniard, (Those born in Spain), Criollo (from Spanish parents but born in the New World called by them "Las Indias", Mestizo, (born from Spaniard and India), Indio, ( a native) Mulato, (born from Spaniard and Negro). Note: In LatinAmerica is not offensive the use of the term "negro" referring to people of african descent.
In this document we can see that Jose Felipe was "mulato libre", meaning he was not a slave. It woul be interesting find the marriage of his parents, maybe in the same parish, to know the race recorded for them.
This document is very clear, BUT there is a mistake, the last name of Gertrudis is Esparza.
Parents: Jose Lino MARTINEZ, Gertrudis ESPARSA
Grandparents: Justo MARTINEZ, Barbara ARSAGA
Clemente ESPARSA, Gertrudis MORALES
A question: Is the document from Chihuahua, Mexico?
My familyroots are from Chihuahua.
Jose Felipe was baptized May 10, born May 7 in the Hazienda de Corralejo el Alto. He was baptized in the Church of San Pedro, in "el Valle de San Bartolome.
does the underlined phrase say "mulato livre" is that reference to race
appreciate help..sorry to be a bother
Yes it is from Chihuahua.
Attached marriage of Jose Lino Martinez and Gertrudis..I feel that I was able to translate this one
I also attached the marriage of Justo and Barbara Arsaga
I think I got everything but is it correct that Barbra was married before to Andre Arellano (she was his widow)
This is great info. This is so helpful for one to figure out where your DNA is coming from.
Jose Felipe Martinez is classifed as a mulato libre..his father Jose Lino Martines is a mestizo and mother Barbara Arsaga mulata libre... so is there some kind of rule that if one of your parents is mulato..you are mulato ?
I have been involved in geneaology for about 10 yrs..working with mostly American, Irish and Sicilian records. Mexico's recording keeping is superior. I haven't found the change to latin in the old church records that I experienced in Sicily.
Stay well..I hope the virus has not affected your family..Sue
"Mulato libre" is a term of race and social condition, meaning that Jose Felipe was son of at least one parent "mulato", and that he wasn't a slave, he was free, although probably he and his parents were servants.
The classification of the different combinations of races was very complicated, it was called "Sistema de Castas" in some cases for the priests was very difficult to determine the correct term. You can find names like: Lobo, Coyote, Zambujo, and many others. I couldn't find the name for the child of a mestizo with a mulata, some authors said the term is "pardo".
Barbara de la Luz ARZAGA was a widow for one year. Her first husband's name was Andres ARELLANO.
In the marriage record of Justo and Barbara you learn that both were from small towns in Durango, Mexico. Justo from Zape and Barbara from Bocas.
I hope you are well and don't mind me asking you for your help.
I have struggled trying to translate what this person died from.
The disease is called "Evacuaciones", a common name for "Dysentery, an infectious disease with inflammation of the intestines, causing severe diarrhea with blood and mucus" (Illustrated OXFORD Dictionary, Oxford University Press, DK Publishing, Inc. 1998)
I noticed it is a very complete document from the Civil Registration, in Jimenez (I assume) now a city, located aprox. 3 hrs. southward Chihuahua City, the Capital of the State of Chihuahua, Mexico.
Thank you soooo much. I'm went down so many wrong paths trying to figure this out.
This family is very complicated. I think I have this figured out but want to be sure ..
Felicitas Reyes..I know she was raised by adoptive parents (Jose Ynez Reyes y Auscencia Saenz).
the baptism if I read it properly does not identify parents but starts with grandparents Refugio Reyes and Tomasa Valle..am I correct in this reading ? Greatful for your help..Sue