Translation Request
Comments
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https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=70
Hi, Julia,
Would you please translate a few words in the above record? I can't read the last part. Baptism legitimate, Peter, parents Christiano Hemmer and Catharina his wife. Godparent Matia Polzl and then I cannot read it - maybe just who did the baptism?
Also below, what is the first name of the first Godparent of Catharina and Jacob? Vrhula? Wagnerin.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=62
Questions: On the records you translated below, may you know the meaning of "Lord" for the two witnesses of Christian's marriage? Lord of the manor where Christian lived / worked? And what is an "honorable youth" in Catharina's marriage. Thank you!!
Contract and marriage between youth Christianus Hemmer, son of Petrus Hemmer and Catharina his wife, and Catharina Sturmanin, remaining widow of Thomas Sturman. Witnesses Lord Petrus Dieterich, Lord Michael Dengg, and Petrus Fleker
June 3. Contract and marriage between honorable youth Georgius Pölzl, son of Georgius Pölzl and Catharina his wife, and between maiden Catharina, daughter of Christian Hemmer and Catharina his wife, officiant: the same Joannes, witnesses Vitus Fux and Thomas Nöstler(?).
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The godfather is Mathias, just in an oblique case (I forget which one) to indicate the "by" part of the "lifted by". The stuff after him is indeed just the officiant. I can't quite figure out the first abbreviated honorific, but it's probably something in the same vein as "Reverend"; the second one is dominus "Lord". His given name is Colomanus, his surname is something like Tecuno or Fecuna, and he's an assistant priest (capellanus, cognate with "chaplain").
The twins' godmother is Ursula. (In capital letters, U and V were often the same. Ditto for capital i and J.)
Dominus "Lord" was an honorific; in later records, I'd be tempted to translate it as "Mister". The two witnesses were probably simply noblemen, for whatever that meant in that time and place. (In early 19th century Hungary, it mostly just meant "tax exempt".)
"Honorable youth" was a formula used in marriage records to indicate a legitimately-born groom who was not previously married.
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All good stuff!! Thank you for translating and enlightening me.
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Good morning, Julia,
My search my ancestor Christian's birth record has turned out to be quite revealing. He is the son of Peter and Catharina Hemmer, according to Christian's marriage record. I found six children, including Christian, born between 1677 and 1690. Finally, in 1690, I believe I found Christian's birth record on page 293. The names, except for the surname, and time period are all correct. Is Homer another way to spell Hemmer? I haven't seen it prior.
Thank you,
Tammi
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9215/?pg=149
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Julie, another Homerin on the next page, 294, from the above link.
I am coming across the two dots above the "o" on what I believe are my ancestors on pages 297, Nov 13, Jacob Hemmer; page 294, April 14 and 17 for Peter and Maria. Strange :)
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Höm(m)er is believable as a variant of Hemmer. (Homer, not so much.) (The sounds written as ö and e are phonetically closely related: the one is the rounded version of the other. The sound written as o, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the vowel chart.)
I haven't been able to find my copy of the German surname dictionary, so I'm not sure what Hemmer means. (I found a website that claims it's based on one of two placenames: https://www.familyeducation.com/baby-names/name-meaning/hemmer.)
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Hi, Julia, sorry I called you Julie and the comment above.
This record is almost illegible its so ancient. I am searching for the marriage record of Peter Hemmer and Catharina. I may be seeing things but I believe I see Catharina. Possibly Hemmer. Thank you for trying.
Tammi
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9257/?pg=8
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Whew! So glad Höm(m)er is acceptable as a variant of Hemmer. Homer as in Homer Simpson (cartoon) is a no.
When I started my Hemmer ancestor research, I found the same meaning "Home Army" as well.
Hoping you will have a chance to read the ancient Latin Wedding record above. I have slim hopes on that one. If it was just written more clearly! The first few pages of the book were neatly done. After that it was horrible.
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The reason that old record is so illegible is that it switched back to German. It's bad enough that I haven't figured out where on the page to look for Hemmer.
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Haha! Sorry I should have given a little more information. Here is a snip from the bottom of page 11. I thought it looked like the German "H" for Hemmer in the third sentence down from the top towards the center of the sentence. There is a line over the "m" which drew my eye. But it may not say Hemmer. The second line from the top appears to say Catharina.
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Hi, Julia,
If the record above is not a crackable nut, no worries. If you have time, I have a more readable marriage record.
Marriage date: February 25, 1722
Groom: Thomas Bliemml
Bride: Anna Jang
I can't read the parent's names for a village name, if there is one. Thank you!!
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9259/?pg=114
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(I'm getting nuttin' on the old German one. I can make out a word here and there, but even those I'm not certain of.)
1722 Feb. 25
Thomas Bliembl juvenis filius Rustici Mathiae Bliembl contraxit matrimonium cum virgine Anna Jangin Georgii Jangi filia ex parochia S. Joannis copu. D. Jacobiths(?) cooperator testes Vitus Schrötner(?) Rusti et Joseph Kürzl Rusticus.
Thomas Bliembl youth, son of farmer/peasant Mathias Bliembl, contracted marriage with maiden Anna Jang, daughter of Georgius Jang of the parish of St. Johann, officiant D. Jacobiths(?) assistant priest, witnesses Vitus Schrötner(?) farmer and Joseph Kürzl farmer.
There's what looks like an abbreviation for defuncti "deceased" right in between the two parents' surnames, so I don't know which of them it applies to.
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Thank you for translating. I like how you translated the Latin paragraph and then typed in English. Good for me to study.
You are correct about "defuncti". I have the the groom's birth record and it says his mother was Gertrude. Since she isn't mentioned above then she had died. The bride's mother isn't mentioned either, so they both must have died previous to the marriage. I will look her up.
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The absence of the mother's names has nothing to do with whether they were living: the mothers simply weren't recorded. For anyone. I skimmed through the page, and every entry is of the format [groom], son of [father of groom], contracted marriage with [bride], daughter of [father of bride], [officiant/witnesses].
(Look on the bright side: I have an ancestor whose marriage record forgot to record his wife's name.)
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Thanks for checking this so thoroughly! I will remind myself to look for this in the future. Mom's just didn't matter much, I guess. That's a terrible omission! The wife's name was missing?!
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Question? If Christian was married prior would he be referred to as a youth?
Contract and marriage between youth Christianus Hemmer, son of Petrus Hemmer and Catharina his wife, and Catharina Sturmanin, remaining widow of Thomas Sturman. Witnesses Lord Petrus Dieterich, Lord Michael Dengg, and Petrus Fleker.
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Hi, Julia, believe I found an ancestor's death note, not much. April 29, 1757, Catharina Hemmerin, 69 years old, Do you know what the last three words are? They seem to be repeated in other death notes. Thank you!!
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9272/?pg=153
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Sorry to send two emails instead of combining. I believe this is Catharina's husband. February 22, 1763, 70 years old. The last four words seem to be somewhat the same as above, if you could translate please and thank you!
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9272/?pg=168
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They all basically just say "was buried" (begraben). Christian's page consistently has something about "with __" (mit), but I can't figure out that word. I doubt that it's genealogically important, though.
For your prior question, no, a previously-married groom wouldn't typically be labeled a "youth" -- unless the clerk was on autopilot, or the priest forgot to make note of that detail, or the groom forgot to mention it, or ....
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Thank you, Julia. At least I have one word Begraben. I couldn't figure it out. The other words, including "mit" seem to be on most deceased people's record so it makes sense it would not tell me anything about Christian or Catharina. Thanks also for your thoughts on Christian's description of being a youth. If he was married previously, I guess the record would say he was a widow.
Happy Holidays!!
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Hi, Julia,
Happy Holidays! I have two questions:
Drudging up old history -- you translated the 1816 Marriage record of Johann Hemmer for me a while back, see below. This is a link to the marriage record if you need it. https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=53.
First question: I am interested to learn if Johann's marriage record says anything about Maria Tauberin, his mother, being remarried at the time of his marriage in 1816. When Maria was 37, her husband, Christian, died in 1803.
I believe I found a re-marriage record for Maria, the link below. It looks like she was a 37 year old widow if I have that correct and the groom is Jacob Blimml, never been married.
Second question: Can you translate what it says under Jacob's name? Thank you!
Your translation: "It says something about the groom being a minor and someone's consent (einwilligung), but I'm not coming up with the right words to read into it to decipher everything. (All handwriting is like that: you can only read it if you know what it says.) It doubtless doesn't help that high school German class was, um, several decades ago.
It's definitely missing the usual "deceased" indicator (selig), but there's a name (Anton somethingorother) after the mention of consent that I'm not sure would be present if Christian were living. (It might just be a witness to the consent, though.)"
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=46
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Happy New Year! A translation please, in addition to the above.
The link below is the death record of 45 year old Maria Tauberin (Maiden Name); first husband Christian Hemmer, and second husband Jacob Blimml, living in House #41. So fortunate that there was so much information on her death record!
The year is 1815, What is the day and month, please and cause of death?
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9275/?pg=4
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Tammi, sorry, for some reason, I didn't see your question from Boxing Day until just now.
Further staring at the 1816 marriage has not revealed anything new to me. Sorry.
Jacob's description appears to say Fluckerbauern Sohn, but there's no such word (per Grimm's dictionary: https://woerterbuchnetz.de/?sigle=DWB). Without the "Flucker" part it'd be "farmer's son".
Maria's cause of death appears to say hitzige Krankheit "heated ailment" and her date of death is 22nd February. I guess she died of a fever.
I think the people over in the Germany Research group (https://community.familysearch.org/en/group/88-germany-research) may be able to get further on these than I can.
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Hi, Julia,
Thank you for the new information. I appreciate all you do and have done!! I will try the German Community, thank you with these few records and get back to you, if you are curious ;-)
Tammi
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