Translation Request
Comments
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Hello,
May I ask for a translation, please. All I need is what is written under Christian's name and the witness names. thank you!!
House: #41
DOB: looks like April 30, 1791
Father: Christian Hemmer -- what is written beneath his name?
Mother: Maria Tauberin
Witness names: ?
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9234/?pg=52
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Hello,
This is in follow up to the translation request for the above record for the child, Anna. The link below is for her sister, Maria.
May I ask for a translation, please, the birth dates of Anna and Maria are very close so I want to be sure of what they are. Anna's is above, I would to know if that is correct.
Child: Maria Hemmer
House: #41
DOB: looks like November 3, 1792 -- is this correct?
Father: Christian Hemmer
Mother: Maria Tauberin
Witness names: Agnes Schorgin
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9234/?pg=54
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My readings:
30 April 1791
House 41
Child: Maria, Catholic, female, legitimate
Father: Christian Hemmer, farmer
Mother: Maria Tauberin
Witness: Agnes Schorgin, farmer-woman
3 November 1792
House 41
Child: Anna, Catholic, female, legitimate
Father: Christian Hemmer
Mother: Maria Tauberin
Witness: Agnes Schörgin, farmer-woman
The word after the father's name in the first one is bauer (and after the godmother's name in both is bauerin).
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Thank you, Julia. Gosh I had the girls' names mixed up! Very close in birth tho.
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In the 1816 marriage record (link below) of Johann Hemmer vulgo Hemmerchristi to Anna Blimmil, does it say anything about Christian Hemmer (father of Johann) being deceased? I believe I found a death record for Christian dated 1803.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=53
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It says something about the groom being a minor and someone's consent (einwilligung), but I'm not coming up with the right words to read into it to decipher everything. (All handwriting is like that: you can only read it if you know what it says.) It doubtless doesn't help that high school German class was, um, several decades ago.
It's definitely missing the usual "deceased" indicator (selig), but there's a name (Anton somethingorother) after the mention of consent that I'm not sure would be present if Christian were living. (It might just be a witness to the consent, though.)
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That's very interesting. I agree that he would seek his own father's consent to marry instead of getting Anton's consent. I will see if someone at the Family Search Center can tease any additional information. You have helped me so much! I agree that you can't read it unless you know what it says.
On to the next puzzle:
I am trying to tie together Christian's birth, marriage and death records to get his year of birth and prove his parents are Jacob and Catharina Hemmer. They are on all of the records including the marriage record but the marriage record is 2 years off if the birth and death records are correct. I will explain.
Death record 9274/Page 42, sixth record on the 2nd page, House #41: He died On June 14, 1803 at 40 years old, that would make his birth year 1763 (if he died after his birthday, which I can't translate on the birth record). Translation Request: Do you know what the 14/16 means? And also the cause of death would be great to have translated, if you can.
Birth Record page 34, last record on the first page: Birth year is 1762 but I can't figure out the month and day. If it is before the death date of June 14, 1803, it means his birth year is 1762. Translation request, please: Can you figure out the month and day?
Marriage record: June 22, 1790. The record says he was 25. This would make his birth year 1765 and he would have been 28 not 25. I am inclined to go with the Birth and Death records. Has this ever occurred in your research? Thank you, Tammi
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9274/?pg=42
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/11542/?pg=34
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=42
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Ah, yay, the birth record is mostly in Latin. (I'm somewhat better at that than German.)
In mense 9bri 1762: in the month of November 1762
Dies [day] 15 [i.e. 15 Nov 1762]
4 uhr abends: 4 o'clock in the afternoon (this part's in German)
Infans Christian, legit.: child Christian, legitimate
Pater et mater Jacob Hemer uxor Catharina, Lig[ist]: father and mother Jacob Hemer [and his] wife Catharina, [residence] Ligist
Patrinus [sorry, I'm getting nuttin' on the godparent's name]
Baptizans D:Wagner [officiant]
The 14/16 in the death record is date of death and date of burial. I think the cause says something about a tree falling on him at the sawmill?
I have an ancestress who consistently used her sister's birthdate as her own, and I've seen "rounding errors" of more than five years on marriage records. It's especially likely if there's a large difference in age, if the groom is younger than the bride, or if either party is especially young or old for marriage -- but sometimes, they got it wrong without any of these factors. Death records are similarly unreliable on people's ages, which is perhaps unsurprising: by definition, the person wasn't available to ask.
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Thank you, Julia, for your input on the translation and the record date differences. I will put more weight on the birth record ... but given your experience with your ancestress (love that!) maybe not 100%. Glad you like Latin! I am getting back into the mid 1700's and there is a lot of Latin now. I have a Latin Word List that I will be referring to but lucky for you, I will be asking for your help! I was just getting sort of used to German!
Question: Will my ancestors' surname "Hemmer" look much different in Latin that it does in German?
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German record, sorry for a little translation.
Can you decipher what is in the deceased name column, 5th row down.
First name: Anton?
Looks like Christian Hemmer is under the child's name. I can't make out the rest.
Age: 7 years
House: #41
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9274/?pg=44
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Died 8th Febr., buried 10th. House 41. Peter Hemmer, the son of Christian Hemmer. Catholic, male, age 7 years. Cause: pox(?).
In Latin, Hemmer will just actually look like "Hemmer" instead of "hnnnnn". :-)
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Oh, interesting. I will search for Peter's birth record. Thanks for the translation!
Hnnnnn drives me nuts!! Although I read that Latin writers back then didn't dot the "i." That frightening! I will be getting into Latin records to find the birth and marriage records for Jacob and Catharina, Christian's parents. At least I have Jacob's death record. Going by the death record, I will be looking around 1719 for the birth.
Again the house number, 41, for Jacob's death! I wonder how many times they torn the house down and rebuilt it. The Hemmer family had been inhabiting house #41 since at least 1760 (Jacob's first child) through 1840. Maybe it was made of stone and added on to.
thanks, again
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Hello! I am sending a link to a death record for Anna Hemmer for translation please. If I have the right Anna Hemmer, she was married to Johann Hemmer of Hemmerchristi. Her maiden name was Blimml.
Anna Hemmer
House #3 Oberwald
Date of death: 1860 looks like October 9? There is a lot written in the date column that is undecipherable. Hoping it further identifies her.
Under Anna Hemmer it says something something and then Hemmerchristi, and I can't decipher the rest
Age 78
Cause of Death? Can't decipher
The last column heading is Fungirender and below that Beifter? Good translate says it means "more funtional"?
Thank you!!
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9276/?pg=116
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The last column is "fungirender Priester": officiating priest (at the burial).
However, something's gone wrong, because that image doesn't have anyone named Anna Hemmer. I paged through a little in each direction and failed to find her.
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Hmm, I clicked on it and it takes me to the page 229 even though the link says page 116. check the second page, last deceased person
Austria Styria: Rk. Diocese of Graz-Seckau league team Death Book 5 1849-1877 | 9276
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9276/?pg=116
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Huh. Now the second page is there. It was absolutely refusing to show it to me, before..
October. Died on the 9th i.e. ninth of October at 9 o'clock in the evening, and buried and blessed on the 11th.
Residence: Oberwald 3
Deceased: Anna Hemmer or old Hemmerchristi, widow ? J???henrin
Catholic, female, age 78
Last rites provided
Cause: dropsy/edema
Officiant: Johann Sei??r, parson
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Old Hemmerchristi, I guess that happens to us all! Thank you. I am not sure how she fits in but someday, I might :-) I think the original Hemmerchristi's were replaced by new land owners not within the family. sometimes I see a surname (not Hemmer) and Hemmerchristi.
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Hello,
The cause of death for Joseph Hemmer in House #41 is not coming up for me on Google Translate. It appears Johann in House #41 also died of the same condition. Thank you for translating
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9274/?pg=40
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Hi, Julia,
Sorry in addition to the above translation request, I have a wonderful Latin marriage record for you to translate.
I believe Jacob Hemmer and Catharina (maiden name?) are ancestors in my line. I was shocked when I found it!! There is no index for the record records. It looks like the marriage date is June 12, 1757. I am hoping the parents of Jacob and Carharina are mentioned. So exiciting!!
Austria Styria: Rk. Diocese of Graz-Seckau league team Wedding book 2 1700-1781 | 9259
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9259/?pg=95
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I think the cause of death may be Kinderpocken (written here as Kinderbocken): chicken pox.
1757 June 12. Jacobus Hemer youth of Oberwald, son of Catharina and Christian spouses, contracted marriage with maiden Catharina, daughter of Bartholomeus Dorner and Elisabetha spouses in service ?? Sebastianus Knopper of Oberwald. (maybe something about on Sunday?) officiant Gotthardus Berschetz assistant pastor, witnesses Vitus Fux and Sebastianus Knopper.
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Thank you Julia! This record contain's all the information I need to keep looking back. Wonderful! You're the best!
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Hi, Julia, Latin records make the Hemmer name stand out. I found a couple records that I would appreciate your translation help.
The link below appears to be the February 10, 1754, marriage of Petrum (Peter)?, whose parents are Christian and Catharina to someone?
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9259/?pg=88
Looks like this link is to the June 3, 1753 marriage Georgium ?last name to Catharina whose parents are Christian and Catharina.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9259/?pg=85
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Latin does stuff to given names for grammar reasons. (Thankfully, surnames are just along for the ride; they don't change.) For example, Petrus "Peter" turns into Petrum when it's used with the preposition inter "between", and Georgius "George" becomes Georgii to express possession ("of George, George's").
February 10. Contract and marriage between Petrus Hemmer, son of Christian Hemmer and Catharina his wife, and between Gertrude, daughter of Mathias Kollpach and Margaritha his wife. Officiant: [can't quite figure it out, and have decided it doesn't matter anyway], witnesses Mathias Kürzl and Andreas Kollpach.
June 3. Contract and marriage between honorable youth Georgius Pölzl, son of Georgius Pölzl and Catharina his wife, and between maiden Catharina, daughter of Christian Hemmer and Catharina his wife, officiant: the same Joannes, witnesses Vitus Fux and Thomas Nöstler(?).
(I know exactly what you mean about the name practically waving at you when switching from German to Latin.)
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Oh, my gosh, how you really are a student of the Latin language. Well with your help, I now know who the parents of the two Christian Hemmers, yay!! They are cousins. Petrus was the father of the other Christian and Jacob was the father of my christian. Thank you so much!!
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Hi, Julia, I am searching through birth records to get birth dates for Christian and Catharina Hemmer's children. Catharina, Peter and Jacob. They all married in the early 1750s so perhaps were born in the mid-1730's ish. Here are three links with Christian's name but maybe not Catharina's. Thank you for your help in translating! Tammi
Birth August 15, 1737, child Barholomeus, mother Andrea Wagner?, something about Gertrude and Christiano Hemmer
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=135
Birth Nov 6, 1735, another child named Martin, father Christiano Hemmer?
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=129
Birth Nov 10, 1734, Child, Martin, father Christiano Hemmer?
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=123
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My gosh! I think I found Christian and Catharina's marriage record. You can ignore the links above as I think Christian is not the father, but is the "levante?) Not sure what that is!
Anyway, Here is the record I would love translated. Thank you so much!
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9259/?pg=31
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The three baptisms that you posted on the 9th all feature Christian Hemmer as godparent only. For example:
August 15. Baptized was the legitimate Bartholomaeus of parents Andreas Wagner of our parish and Gertrude his wife. Godparent [literally "lifted up by"] Christianus Hemmer, baptized by the assistant priest.
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September 28.
Contract and marriage between youth Christianus Hemmer, son of Petrus Hemmer and Catharina his wife, and Catharina Sturmanin, remaining widow of Thomas Sturman. Witnesses Lord Petrus Dieterich, Lord Michael Dengg, and Petrus Fleker.
(Reward for a job well done is another job: now you need Catharine's first marriage to hopefully get her parents.)
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Haha, more work! I love it though. I was getting "lifting", but I couldn't make sense of it. A first marriage! Okay, I will get on that.
I am struggling with what I think is a mistake by the recorder in a church record. I will explain:
So Christian and Catharina married in September 28, 1722. I have the marriage records of Christian and Catharina's three children. Jacob 1757, Catharina 1753, and Peter 1754 (they may all be above in previous emails). So I went looking for the birth records of their three children. I looked in the records from 1710 to 1741. There were no Christian Hemmers at all unless he was lifting a baby.
I found the records:
June 27, 1725 the birth of Peter. The father is Christian and the mother is Catharina.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=70
Next is the birth of twins on July 17, 1723, Jacob and Catharina. Father Christian and mother Margaretha? What!! Do you think it is a mistake?
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9231/?pg=62
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Well, the two baptisms do have the same godfather, and the July birth after a September wedding is also right -- especially given that it's twins, who are basically never full-term, even today -- so it's possible it's an error, but it's also possible that there was another Christian Hemmer who really was married to a Margaret. Unfortunately, I cannot think of an easy way to check, given the lack of an index for this period of time.
(I have multiple sets of ancestors where the son with the same name as his father married a woman with the same given and surname as his mother. This has made me leery of concluding anything much based on names alone.)
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Thank you, Julia, for your thoughts on this. You are right, no easy way to check without an index except to scan through the years. I will search the marriage records for the time and see if I can find a Christian and Margaret. Have a nice day!
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