Help me decipher this birth act

cdeb78

I recently received this file which I cannot read more than the first name I searched for, Valentin.

Can you tell me, if you are more used to that presentation of birth act than me, what other information I could get from it? I also know the birth date 20 march of 1763 but that's all!

I also received a transcription but that's why I would like to double check, the family name seems to be different than the one I search for. (which can happen in old register, I'm ok with the idea but want to know if it's relevant to look for that new name/spelling?)

WSeelentag

This record is indeed very difficult to read - the more important is it to follow one of the basic rules: always give the reference, here the parish, for this record. Knowing the parish might be crucial to read e.g. the surname. BTW - which surname are you looking for?

Some time ago I had proposed a structure for discussion titles on https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/129680/what-title-would-be-best-for-postings (parish - type of register - year - name - specific question) and hope for many opinions: what do you think about this? Alternatively you could just adopt this format in your future postings 😉.

WSeelentag

Sorry - forgot to ask last time: you mention a transcription. Could you, please, post that here as well? Checking the condition of an existing wheel is more efficient than re-inventing the wheel 😉.

cdeb78

Hello, WSeelentag,

Sorry I asked for help without respecting all the rules used in the group, I'll remember to give some context in the title (and if I can still modify it after, I'll do)

I didn't want to influence the results, but because you're interested enough to ask, I'll answer. The known name of my ancestor is Januth (sometimes spelled Schanuth in other acts), but the transcript for this act reads "Hans Jacob Jenni" , wife Martha. Since I do all my research on "Januth's" I wonder if it's a possibility worth to be investigated? what do you think?

The parish is Flims, Graubunden.

WSeelentag

No reason to apologize - you haven't disregarded any "rules" - there are none (apart from decent behaviour) 😉. I had just suggested a structure for titles (especially for the Switzerland Group) to make life easier for the volunteers, willing to help. 1) One sees immediately what it is about - without having to trace this info from the text. 2) Most topics here are just a "reading help desk" - but occasionally we actually see discussions (which I think should be the purpose of a "community"). In these cases occasionally it makes sense to refer to previous discussions - and they are much easier to find with a meaningful title.

Now on your names: according to https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/famn/index.php?lg=e Januth have been citizens of Flims (and Flims only) since before 1800. According to "Rätisches Namenbuch" (http://kunden.eye.ch/swissgen/rnb/) the first mention of Januth in Flims was 1504. Related spellings would be Gienuth, Gianutt, Schanutt, Gianotti, Zanotta (some in other villages). Jenni / Jenny hold citizenships (since before 1800) in several Grisons communities.

Now on your baptismal record:

Valentin is clear.

Father (I read): … Herrn Meister Hans Jacob [surname??] Metzger (butcher).

Mother: Elisabeth (not sure, but not Martha) …..

Conclusion: I would not contradict Jenni, but not confirm it either.

What next?

I assume your copy is a download from familysearch, not a screenshot - so this is the best resolution we can get. Unfortunately I cannot access the film (from home). What about the pages preceding and following the sample … are they all as faint as this one, or are some better? One could check surrounding pages for other children of a Hans Jacob (likely a butcher) and Elisabeth (or similar) … if you are lucky, there will be other entries for the same parents which might be easier to decipher and compare with the entry in question here.

Alternative 1: contact the State Archive and ask if they keep the original book (or where it is kept) … and whether they would be willing to have a look at this specific entry.

Alternative 2: once we know where the original is kept, expand the readership by posting your question on https://www.geneal-forum.com/ (registration is free and without obligation) and ask if anyone researches this family and might be able to help - or could visit whatever archive to have a look at the original book.

Would it be worth the effort? Depends on whether you have an open question in or around 1763.

Good luck - and keep us updated on what you do (and get as responses) - Wolf

cdeb78

Hello Wolf,

thanks for your interesting answer. I do not have access to these document, physically, so that's what I got from the FS lookup service, I was asking for the birth act of Valentin which I know was born 1763. So they sent me this with the transcript of "jenni". We know names may vary in times and places (especially in a country with multiple languages I guess).

I don't know if i can ask the lookup service to search no specific date or people but just "children born around these times" whose father is Hans Jacob , butcher and mother Elisabeth... Don't know if they search so precisely.

Don't know either how friendly is the state archive service to ask them so un-precise search?

I'm not familiar with the citizenship in Switzerland. Because Januth's have citizenship in Flims, what does it mean for us genealogists? can we only find acts in this city? the place where my known ancestor was born is another city (Malix)

WSeelentag

Let me try to answer your general questions first.

The importance of the community citizenship within the Swiss citizenship had recently been asked by someone else - here's my response: https://community.familysearch.org/en/discussion/comment/498757/#Comment_498757. Where a family lived and had their children baptized is a different question. The more recent we get, the higher is the likelihood that place of citizenship (often kept over many generations) and place of living differ. So living in Malix would be quite possible for a Flims citizen. On the other hand - the Register of Swiss Surnames only lists names of families holding a specific citizenship in 1962 (when the data were compiled) … so a family becoming extinct (the line with a specific citizenship), e.g. because they all emigrated to America, would not be listed.

Important for genealogists is that families living somewhere else reported back to their place of citizenship: e.g. if a child was born and not reported it would not get citizenship "by birth" - important at time when this was the "social security system". So you will often find baptisms taking place somewhere else in the "home" baptismal register; in many communities citizens registers were started during early 19th century (larger cities usually much earlier), compiling all their citizens in "family sheets". See http://kunden.eye.ch/swissgen/kant/sgstemma.htm for an early example (many families since the early 16th century). With the introduction of todays civil registry system in 1876 this became compulsory for all of Switzerland. Consequence: if you don't know where a person lived, check the place of citizenship - you might be lucky.

Spelling of names: you are correct - was not fixed and consequently often varied. However, Jenni (Jenny, Jänni, …) are also old families in Grisons - so I don't think they would be mixed up. On the other hand, Jenni is a fairly wide spread name in Switzerland, Januth is not - so, if difficult to read, one may "recognise" a name one has heard of before 😉.

What next? I don't think State Archive staff will perform such a "fuzzy search" - they will usually refer you to a professional. I would therefore recommend you post your question on https://www.geneal-forum.com/. A very helpful member there with regular access to a FHC has been doing many look-ups so far (though mostly in Bern and Aargau) - she might be willing to get involved. You find a few FAQs (though many in German only) on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=31426.