Searching by FHL Film Number
Is it still possible to search by FHL Film Number?
I have a film number for a batch of records from a church in Durham, England.
The film number is 2082476.
The church is St Godric RC Church, in Durham City, England.
I have previously found the baptism records for George Alfred Caveney in 1903, and his siblings. They were in the collection 'England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975'.
I can no longer find these records. Where have they gone? Have they been removed? A search for the Film Number 2082476 gets the result 'No results found'.
Can you help please?
Yes, you can still search by film number:
The FHL Catalog shows the film strip icon for the items 2-6 - which means the records are not available online from FamilySearch - only in microfilm at the FHL.
Some of the other items on the roll show the camera icon - so digital images are available for those items - but not the specific one you are wanting.
'England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975' has gone - you are correct I do not find it as a current FamilySearch collection - but Ancestry refers to it:
which refers to FamilySearch Legacy collection:
But I do not find George Alfred Caveney 1903 searching in that collection.
The Ancestry database returns the results:
Name: Georgius Alfredus Caveney
Baptism Date: 29 Mar 1903
Baptism Place: St. Godric, Durham, Durham, England
Father: Thomae Caveney
Mother: Helenae Benson
FHL Film Number: 2082476
The 1911 England & Wales Census also has the Keaveny family in Durham:
which refers you to FindmyPast.co.uk for a digital image.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/ also showed no baptism results for George Alfred Caveney.
Non-conformist church records for St. Godric at the National Archives gives Durham County Record Office contact information:
Perhaps the licensing changed if digital images were available previously?
Perhaps all FamilySearch Legacy databases are now only accessible through the wiki? I do not understand why the content of the database would change though...2
Thank you for your reply.
The transcription for the baptism of George Alfred Caveney which you found on Ancestry is the same as the transcription I was previously able to view on FamilySearch via a Records Search. I did not see it on Ancestry, and I am sure about that as I do not have an Ancestry subscription. So I am certain I saw the transcriptions for George and his siblings on FamilySearch, and I am certain I found them via a Records Search. This was about 3 years ago.
Now the transcriptions do not seem to be available any more, using a Records Search, and I wonder why that is.
Thanks for your help.
@SylviaWaterson, I seem to recall something about a contract expiring, causing a bunch of English records to be no longer accessible via FS. (I have no English relatives, so I haven't paid attention to the specifics, sorry.)2
Yes, The basic reason results may disappear when a contract expires is that index 'ownership' must have been contract negotiated to expire. Since this database still resides with Ancestry I would suspect that is where the index ownership/contract now resides. Although I too haven't paid too much attention nor recall if some Ancestry content is now expiring.
Sylvia If you did have Ancestry account you could search Ancestry catalog and would find the 'England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975' database.
This also presents some opportunities for action items to follow-up/learn from FamilySearch:
1. Is there a legacy collection kb article - explaining the transition process upon contract term expiration?
2. Can/do collections prominently display date of contract expiration?
3. If the legacy collection/index remains accessible through wiki, why is it removed from Search collections?
4. (And probably my greatest concern) if the legacy collection index remains accessible through wiki - why is the content decreased such as to make it less valuable/different from the Record Custodian collection/contract partner? Obviously it is for referral to the current contracted partner/record custodian- so why not just have a legacy referral record in search that refers to those parties? In other words allow the search/results to still display - but when selecting a particular result redirect to the current licensed partner/record custodian? I guess that would require such in the contract ...1
Some followup - hopefully it helps those that notice record results are no longer found:
- Help Center kb/article: https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/why-have-some-historical-records-disappeared-from-familysearch
- No collections do not display expiration date - contract terms are not commonly displayed. That can be contractually negotiated or reviewed and possibly the collection can be accessible after that review.
- ...just part of the contract terms... If you search the wiki for 'FamilySearch Historical Records Legacy Collections' - you'll see all these collections.
If you know the collection name you can search the wiki for that. The Legacy collection page will display whether the index is searchable or not or refer you to the record custodian/access partner.
4. One might be able to get film/record help through the FamilySearch Lookup Service - at the least they can give you particulars about collection/record access restriction.1