How do I get help finding ANY information about my Great Great Grandfather
Hi from Sydney Australia,
Hi my name is Trevor Ellis and I am writing a family history for my grandchildren. I have a tree on FamilySearch. My Great Great Grandfather was John Ellis, b 1802, I think from his Certificate of Freedom. He was sentenced to 7 years transportation from Lancashire to New South Wales (Norfolk Island), and arrived in 1838 on board the Bengal Merchant. I am desperately trying to find his parents and may have found his mother, Ann Ellis. John was baptised in 1802 but no father was on the form, just his mother, listed as a Spinster. I did a bit of rough maths and think I found her birth on FamilySearch in 1772. Her father was likely also John Ellis. So, I have attached his Certificate of Freedom and his Baptism record but am trying to locate the file about his mothers birth, who her mother was plus and other information about her family background. I also recently had my DNA done via Ancestry which shows I have links to the Isle of Man. This might be a red herring but there were Ellis's there, but my DNA does not give me names, etc.
I would appreciate ANY info that can be provided as I think I may be hitting a brick wall.
Possible Ann Ellis Burial
Possible John Ellis Baptism
John Ellis Certificate of Freedom after doing his sentence. Can anyone make out the handwriting???
I am just another 'lowly' User/Patron ...
[ And, I happen to be a "Aussie", from "Downunder" ... ]
Just in passing ...
Ah ... Australian Royalty ...
Just in case, you were not aware ...
Have you tried the Website ...
Not bad, for information, on the "Convicts" ...
IF, you have not already, you may which to consider both, "Joining"; and, submitting, your post, in (at least) the following 'Groups', in the "Groups" Section, of this "Community.FamilySearch" Forum:
[ 1 ]
HOME > GROUPS > BRITISH ISLES FAMILY HISTORY RESAERCH
British Isles Family History Research
[ 2 ]
HOME > GROUPS > ENGLAND GENEALOGICAL RESAERCH
England Genealogy Research
I hope, that this may help/assist, somewhat.
Just in case ...
There is also these, from the 'FamilySearch' "Research Wiki" ...
Australia Convict Records
New South Wales Convict Records
Isle of Man Genealogy
Isle of Man Online Genealogy Records
Isle of Man Record Finder
Isle of Man Personal Names
Isle of Man Church Records
Isle of Man Societies
I hope, that these may also help/assist, somewhat.
Brett has provided some excellent general advice.
- You have provided a 1841 census image rather than John's baptism record. An Ann Ellis appears on this. What is the location (difficult to read)? Why do you think this is his mother? Is this based on the location of John's baptism record?
- What is your reasoning for thinking you might have the right John Ellis? Is this simply based on age and location (Lancashire) or is there anything else?
- Checked FindMyPast for John Ellis in Lancashire baptised between 1802 and 1804. It only gave one result - 1803 in Liverpool.
From the information you have provided I would start by having a look at the Lancashire Assizes records. The Assizes record may give the parish name eg late of .....
Then have a look in that parish to see how many baptism records you can find for John Ellis around 1802. You may need to track each of the John Ellis' forward so you can work out which one was transported.
The Lancashire Assize records are available on Ancestry. It may be worth your while to check these out at your local Family History Centre where you can access the Institution version of Ancestry.
This is a good resource for Lancashire records - https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Lancashire,_England_Online_Genealogy_Records
The Lancashire online parish clerk is a good place to look if you can narrow down the parish - https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Another tip. I have had success doing this. If another person was named in the sentencing - either the crime was committed with xxx, or the crime was committed against xxx - look for the other person and hope they came from the same parish.
Good luck with smashing your brick wall :)1
I assume this is the FamilySearch record of the baptism of John Ellis:
I, too, wonder if you have any evidence to suggest it was this John Ellis that who was convicted, then transported to Australia.
Also, why you are linking the Ann Ellis in the 1859 burial at Farnworth (born around 1780) to the one who was at Colne in 1802 - as she is shown as being of Widnes (Dock), which is over 60 miles from Colne.
The only 1851 census record I could find as a "close match" for an Ann Ellis born in the 1770/80s turned out to be for a widow, however. Interestingly, Runcorn (her 1851 residence) is just 2 miles (as the crow flies - the River Mersey separates the towns) from the 1859 residence (Widnes) of the Ann Ellis buried at Farnworth.
This just illustrates how important it is to know if the 1859 burial applied to a widow or a spinster, as well as having other reasons to link an Ann Ellis of Colne to either the one of Widnes, or to the one at Ulverston (see your 1841 census screenshot) - a place over 90 miles from Widnes and at least 60 miles from Colne.
Please let us know if you have any additional information to connect John and Ann Ellis, because the current details you have posted here do not really show any links at all. The screenshots / details posted might otherwise refer to three separate Ann Ellis individuals.0
Update - Just found this in Wikipedia:
"Farnworth is part of the town of Widnes which is in the Borough of Halton in the ceremonial county of Cheshire and historic county of Lancashire".
So it seems the Ann Ellis, widow, found in the 1851 census (see above) was almost certainly the one buried at Farnworth in 1859, so not the spinster (of Colne) who was the mother of John Ellis (baptised 1802).
Maybe this record is for Ann of Colne:0
Just one final offering, for now: the only close match for the "Ann" Ellis of Colne is a "Nancy" Ellis baptised there 23 December 1781 - to James and Betty Ellis, but there are later references to a Nancy Ellis, so she might not prove to be the mother of the John baptised in 1802.
Of course, we cannot be sure - from the detail you have provided - of your confidence in your John Ellis being the individual baptised at Colne - unless you do have further information that does confirm this identity.
@Western Detective offers good advice about trying to find any details from Assizes records that might perhaps mention his parish of origin or residence, names of other parties, etc.0
I have joined and in fact have a reasonable family tree on family search.
Pleased you have returned here - and hopefully found some useful tips.
I'm sure we would all be pleased for any updates on any progress made regarding your research of this branch of your family.0
Will do - many thanks.