Do DATA PROBLEMS in RESEARCH HELP, preclude ability to DELETE an Person, if one is ONLY Contributor?
Reference:
'Knowledge Article", in 'FamilySearch':
How do I delete a person from Family Tree?
https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/how-do-i-delete-a-person-from-family-tree
Where it states, among other things:
Quote
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If you created the record and no other contributor has changed it, you can delete a deceased person's record from Family Tree. The message "Delete Person Unavailable" appears if you cannot delete a person.
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Request for clarification, required ...
Question:
Do "Data Problems" in "Research Help", recorded against a "Deceased" individual/person, in 'Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch', actually preclude the ability, to "Delete" that individual/person, if one is the User/Patron who "Created" the individual/person; and, the ONLY "Contributor" to the individual/person, in ALL respects?
As ...
There is NO indication, in the aforementioned "Knowledge Article" (or, elsewhere, it seems), to indicate, that there are any OTHER caveats, for NOT being able to "Delete" a "Deceased" (or, for that matter, "Living") individual/person, that one is the User/Patron who "Created" the individual/person; and, the ONLY "Contributor" to the individual/person, in ALL respects.
Please advise.
Now ...
That Said ...
Furthermore ...
IF, "Data Problems" in "Research Help", recorded against a "Deceased" (or, for that matter, "Living") individual/person, in 'Family Tree", of 'FamilySearch', actually preclude, the ability, to "Delete", that individual/person, if a User/Patron:
(1) IS the User/Patron who "Created" the individual/person; and,
(2) the ONLY "Contributor", to the individual/person, in ALL respects;
THEN, the aforementioned "Knowledge Article" NEEDS to be "Changed"/"Amended", by 'FamilySearch', to reflect/include that FACT (ie. additional caveat).
.
'Thank You' in advance.
Your cooperation, would be greatly appreciated.
Humbly submitted for your, information; attention; and, consideration.
Kind Regards
MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU IN THIS IMPORTANT WORK
Yours Faithfully,
Brett
ps: Please, note; and, be aware:
NO, other "Contributor" (And, NOT even, 'FamilySearch'), checked; and, CONFIRMED in:
(1) ChangeLog; and.
(2) "Couple" Relationship"; and,
(3) "Parent-Child" Relationship
Plus ...
(1) NO, Patents, ONLY, a Spouse; and, a Child
(2) NO, "Temple" Work either ,"Requested"; "In Progress"; and/or, "Completed"
..... [ Available; but, NOT, "Requested"; "In Progress"; and/or, "Completed" ]
(3) NO, "Sources"; or, "Collaboration" (either, "Notes"; or, "Discussions"); or, "Memories"
(4) NO, "Merges"/'Combines"
(5) NO, "Read-Only" Person(s); and/or, "Confidential Person(s), involved; and/or, associated
ONLY - "Data Problems", which it seems, unnecessary to action, if DELETION being undertaken
And ...
Please be advised ...
That "Merging"/"Combining", is NOT, a suitable option (and, should NOT be undertaken).
.
Answers
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Record hints and data problems do not count as contributions to a profile. Only dismissing or applying them do. Therefore, I believe that the existence of these flags does not affect the availability of Delete Person.
It would be easy enough to test this in the sandbox (beta), but I'm not LDS, so I can't check on those aspects (and besides, I'm lazy).
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Julie
'Thank You' ...
I was previously unware, that the existence, of a "Data Problem"(or, problems), that would preclude, the ability to "Delete", an individual/person - when one should have been able to.
In this particular case ...
There are Four (x4) "Data Problems" ...
Where, ONLY one can be "Dismissed" ...
Whereas, the OTHER Three (x3) MUST be addressed/fixed; but, such is NOT necessary ...
It just 'seems' pointless, for the NEED to either, "Dismiss"; and/or, address/fix, ANY "Data Problems"; especially, when the individual/person concerned (in this case, just a "Place Holder", that was inadvertently created), is being "Deleted".
I may be able to recreate the (exact; or, near exact) situation/circumstances, in the "Beta" ("Test") Environment, of 'FamilySearch'; but, due to the nature of the "Data Problem(s)", it would take a little time - not one of those, quick and easy scenarios.
For starters ...
I would just like it confirmed, by 'FamilySearch', whether or not, if a ("Red") "Data Problem" (of any kind), would actually preclude, the ability, to "Delete", that individual/person, if a User/Patron:
(1) IS the User/Patron who "Created" the individual/person; and,
(2) the ONLY "Contributor", to the individual/person, in ALL respects.
Knowing such, I could then better help/assist, another User/Patron.
We have been advising MANY, why the "Delete Person Unavailable" appears.
[ According to the aforementioned "Knowledge Article" ... ]
Whereas, this is a situation/circumstance, where the "Delete Person", SHOULD be available.
[ Well, anyway, according to the aforementioned "Knowledge Article" ... ]
Hence, what "Caveats", are MISSING, from that aforementioned "Knowledge Article" ...
I am not just curious, I am very curious ...
Brett
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I just went to the sandbox and added a child to a couple that was born in 1875 and 1883; I gave the child a birthdate of 1850 and a death date of 1845. This caused four flags under Research Help: three data problems (death before birthdate, child born before father, child born before mother) and one research suggestion (no sources attached). I then edited the death date to 1850, which left the one purple and two red flags.
Then I used Delete Person and got rid of the profile without any trouble.
This confirms my prior conclusion: flags are not profile contributions, and they have no effect on the availability of Delete Person.
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Julie
The plot thickens ...
BEFORE, you made the "Correction", to that ONE "Data Problem" ...
Question: Did you notice, whether the "Delete Person" was available; or, was it "Delete Person Unavailable".
Because ...
IF, the "Delete Person" was unavailable; and, ONLY the "Delete Person Unavailable" appeared; THEN, just maybe (hopefully), the 'Status' of the "Delete Person", may "Change", with addressing/fixing, certain "Data Problems" (ie. Errors).
And, if such is the case; then, that "Knowledge Article", NEEDS amending/updating ...
Whereas, in the situation/circumstance, in the particular case, that I am dealing, the "Delete Person" is unavailable, ONLY the "Delete Person Unavailable" appears.
Brett
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Delete Person was available throughout.
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Julie
'Thank You'.
Lets 'see', if 'FamilySearch', can provide any input/insight ...
Brett
ps: There DOES NOT seem to be ANYTHING, that would (ie. should) have 'Triggered', the "Delete Person Unavailable"
.
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Based on some long ago discussions here regarding other inexplicable behavior, I've concluded that one common reason when "there does not seem to be anything," is the involvement of living people.
Going to beta, I created a duplicate for a person and added a father born after him to get the data errors Possible Duplicate and Child Born Before Father. The original had a hint so I was hoping to get one on the duplicate but it hasn't shown up so far.
Delete Person remained available on both the person and father.
I went in using my wife's account and created a Living child for the person and the person immediately changed to Delete Person Unavailable with no sign of why in my Change Log.
What I see:
What my wife sees:
If my wife then deletes that living child, she has now made two edits to Åmund:
that I can't see:
and Delete remains unavailable.
There is no way to prove that you have run into a situation like this since you cannot see anything someone else has done to Living people. But assuming that is the case, the Help Center article is correct as stands. It's just easy to forget that the strict privacy towards Living people extends to the Change Log.
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Gordon
'Thank You', for that
I had NOT consider that a User/Patron had added an individual/person that was "Living" ....
And, I understand, what you mean, about the 'mix', that can come, from "Living" individuals/persons ...
[ and, especially, where, those are later changed, from "Living", to "Deceased"; and, subsequent, changes ... ]
Fortunately, in the particular case, at hand, ONLY the SAME User/Patron for ALL involved (ie. the Line); ALL the Family were created in "Family Tree" (and, NOT from "New.FamilySearch"); and, NONE of the "Family" were put in as "Living", at any stage - all ONLY as "Deceased" (Early, 1800s).
There is just, no 'rhyme or reason', how or why, the 'Status' should be 'Delete Person Unavailable'...it should NOT.
Of course, I CANNOT say with certainty, that another User/Patron, DID NOT add a "Living" individual/person ...
[ And, has been, "Retained"; or, later, "Deleted"; or, whatever ... ]
But, such would be highly improbable ...
But you CANNOT rule such out ...
And, there is NO indication of such (either way) in ANY of the "ChangeLogs" for, ALL the individuals/persons; and, the, "Couple"; and/or, Parent-Child" Relationships, concerned - just NO signs whatsoever - and, there has been NO later work.
Brett
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“When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” - S. Holmes
If you can get someone in Support to check the record and its change log for living people or confidential people, let us know what they find.
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😀
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This question has been forwarded to a Specialty Department for review.
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😀
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It was reported yesterday that this issue has been resolved. Apparently there are system journaling events that were being interpreted as "contributions." A change has been made to ignore those events when checking for contributors. Please try again and private message me if it is still a problem. We will close the issue tomorrow if nothing is reported.
Thank you!
BTW, Data Problems do NOT affect this feature. Bugs in the software do.😁
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[ cc: @CJTobler (FYI) ]
Bruce
'Thank You' ...
BUT ...
FYI
SORRY ...
The problem/issue has NOT been "Resolved".
We just checked.
'No' change ... same, same ...
The "Delete Person Unavailable", STILL appears, for the individual/person concerned.
[ We have ALREADY sent a ("Private") 'Message', with the respective 'FamilySearch Person Identifier' (PID) ... ].
[ Perhaps, the particular PID, actually needs to be "Reset" regarding the "Delete Person Unavailable" ... ]
So ...
That said ...
Please DO NOT "Close" this matter; as, such has NOT been FULLY "Resolved" ( Maybe, ONLY, Partially ... )
[ As, ALL such affected 'FamilySearch Person Identifiers' (PIDs), so affected, MAY need to be "Reset" ... ]
This is NOT, the FIRST instance, that it has been reported, that the "Delete Person Unavailable" appears ...
[ Granted, many DID NOT realise, that they could NOT "Delete"; as, they were NOT the ONLY "Contributor" ... ]
But, perhaps, some of those, former, such cases, MAY have been like (ie. the SAME as) this one ...
'Food for thought' ...
Brett
ps: As, we CANNOT 'see', the "... system journaling events ... ", in the "ChangeLog", we were not aware of such
pps: We were hoping that "Data Problems" were not the problem/issue; but, we had NO ideas, what else was
.
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The issue has been reopened with the engineers.
Will keep you posted as the status changes.
There is no constraint based on Data Problems--only on contributions, some of which can be made by the system based on various operations on the record that may not show in the Change Log. Those events may be journaled as "silent" or hidden contributors. But we all agree that they should not cause the record to show as "Delete Not Available."
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😀
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@Brett . Should be fixed now. See private message.
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All
FYI
Just in passing ...
Just so that you are aware ...
The outcome ...
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You should be able to delete the record when signed into the account that created it.
Message from the engineer after I reopened the ticket:
"I fixed the view calculation, but I didn't clear the cached view. I have now done so. It will delete now."
So, we can infer that there may be other records in the tree for which the cached view may still be impacted. I have no information on when/if the view cache gets cleared and recalculated for all the records in the tree. However, this issue should not appear for new records as the engineer has fixed the calculation to ignore the system events as "contributors."
Best Regards and thank you for following up on this. A defect in the programming has been corrected as a result
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Well ..
That has now been addressed/fixed for FUTURE individuals/persons; but, NOT those that proceeded such ...
So ...
That Said ...
There WAS a problem/issue; where, there WERE (and, still are) , most probably, SOME individuals/persons; where the "Delete Person Unavailable" appears; but, should NOT.
The case I raised, being one of them ...
Now ...
That Said ...
I for one, will NO LONGER just "Dismiss", simply 'out-of-hand', such matters.
[ Not that I ever did; but, NOW, I know better ... that there is MORE to it ... ]
Certainly, something, to remember; and, keep in mind, for future reference.
[ If such matter, is raised again, by others ... ]
Just my thoughts.
Brett
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