Greetings from near San Antonio, Texas, y'all! I have recently retired and my new hobby is geneolog
My first "brick wall" is Patrick Mannix (unable to confirm DOB and DOD.) He was my mother's mother's mother's father. He married Ellen Hughes. All I know is they were both born in Ireland (Mom thought County Cork) and moved to Liverpool. I have found them and their children on multiple census' for West Derby, Lancaster, England starting in 1881, 1891, and 1901. (On the 1881 census, it looks like their suname was listed as Manning not Mannix but the names and dates all match for parents and child) After the 1901 census, I have been unable to locate info for him even though I am able to find Ellen Hughes (Mannix') burial information. Per my mom, they were both Catholic. All of the children were also baptized Catholic and I have located each of their baptism info. The children are: Mary, Ellen, Margaret (great granny), William, and Hannah. My mom is 86 and didn't know her cousins (except for one) so am hoping to provide info for her. She had heard Patrick and Ellen had moved to America for a short while and returned to Liverpool. She understood they had children born in Ireland, Liverpool, and USA (unable to confirm other than Liverpool per census info). She had also heard they had run a boarding house near the Dock Rd especially geared to the Irish waiting to board to the US. I also searched "Find a will|GOV.UK at the URL: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
I am also unable to find Patrick and Ellen's marriage information; also likely Ireland.
I have stopped at Patrick as unable to locate parent info for him. Other family trees have additional information for parentage but I am not able to confirm. Ellen appears to have a brother (Michael) for whom I was able to trace parents and added for Ellen.
Mom said it was common for parents and their adult children to live on the same street (My nan and one of her sisters lived on the same street as my great granny.)
Thank you in advance for your help.
Carol
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Welcome, Carol! It's great to meet you! I hope your new hobby brings you much happiness this year!
That does sound like a big brick wall. If you haven't found them in the 1871 census, they were likely still in Ireland. While Ireland did decadal censuses every year starting with one like England (for the most part), unfortunately the census records from 1861 through 1891 were destroyed by the government after statistics had been compiled from them. So you probably will not find Patrick and Ellen in any Irish census records.
It does, however, help to know that they were likely Catholic, as that gives you a big clue as to what church records you should be searching for. I would definitely try to take a look at Catholic records from Ireland in the mid 1800s.
I'm going to tag the @Ireland Genealogy Research group to see if anybody there has any suggestions as well!
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Hello,
Are these people in the Family Search Family Tree (FSFT) ? If so, what are their ID numbers.
If not, could you provide more details about the addresses you found them in the census, their (approximate) dates of births, birthplaces, occupations etc
Unfortunately, Ireland is probably the hardest country in Western Europe for genealogical research. The National Archives was destroyed during their civil war in 1922. Most Catholic parishes couldn't start keeping records until 1828 due to religious persecution. There's not a lot of variety in both first- and surnames in Ireland. Because Ireland was still part of the UK there are no records of immigrants from Ireland to England.
My initial suggestions for your case are:
There are births, marriages and deaths records from 1864 onwards for Ireland at irishgenealogy.ie During 1845-1864 only non-Catholic marriages were recorded. This website is free, except for some earlier death records.
Before that time, you must rely on Catholic records. The only online copies (which are often very poor quality) for these are at https://registers.nli.ie/ They are indexed at Ancestry and FindMyPast. RootsIreland is another subscription site that has an seperate index of some Catholic records, but no images.
If you believe Patrick and Ellen married in Ireland after 1864, then trying to finding their marriage is a good place to start. However you must be very careful that you don't mix them up with another couple with the exact same names.
Try researching the children in obituaries, and immigration records into the US, for any mention of a precise place of origin in Ireland. Without a precise place, it will be hard to know that you have the correct Patrick Mannix and Ellen Hughes.
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