What did parents have to do in to christen their children after about 1837 in England? Could one pa
What happens if the mother died in childbirth? Did they still record both parent's name on the record? When they christened or baptized two children on the same day does that mean the children were twins or could the parents have brought two children born two years apart and christened them together?
個答案
-
@DarlaReeGrigg DarlaReeGrigg
.
Darla
.
As no one else has yet responded ...
.
From the outset, I am certainly not expert ...
.
And...
.
These are just my thoughts ...
.
Answers to your Questions ... in order
.
-----
.
(1) The same as they did, both, before; and, after, 1837.
.
-----
.
(2) 'Yes', I am sure they could
.
But, such may also be dependent on the actual:
▬ Parish (location/locality)
▬ Religion (ie. Denomination/Faith)
.
-----
.
(3) Following on from (2) above ...
.
That depends on the actual:
▬ Parish (location/locality)
▬ Religion (ie. Denomination/Faith)
.
-----
.
(4) To some degree, the terms "Baptism"; and, "Christening", are synonymous.
.
But, that said, they do have slightly different meanings; especially, among the different Religions (ie. Denominations/Faiths)
.
For some 'light' bedtime reading ...
.
WikiPedia
.
Baptism
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_baptism
.
Christening
.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christening
.
Just some Other website links ...
[ But, not limited to ... ]
.
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/is-a-baptism-different-to-a-christening/
.
https://www.catholicaustralia.com.au/the-sacraments/171
.
http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-baptism-and-christening/
.
.
https://difference.guru/difference-between-baptism-and-christening/
.
https://aleteia.org/2019/07/17/is-baptism-the-same-as-christening/
.
-----
.
(5) It is certainly possible the Mother could still recorded, even if she died in Childbirth ...
.
But, as previously stated ...
.
That depends on the actual:
▬ Parish (location/locality)
▬ Religion (ie. Denomination/Faith)
.
-----
.
(6) Both Patents were NOT necessarily recorded ...
.
I have seen many cases where ONLY the Mother was recorded.
.
In many of those cases, the Child was recorded as "Illegitimate"; and, Mother as a "Single Woman" ... But, NOT always.
.
I have also seen some cases, where ONLY the Father was recorded.
.
In most of those cases, there was NO indication of the Mother; or, why she was not recorded.
.
-----
.
(2) 'No' ... Two (x2) Children in the same Family being Baptized/Christened on the SAME Day, DOES NOT necessarily mean that they were twins.
.
They certainly could have been ...
.
And, I have seen "Notations" to the effect that two (x2) Children being Baptized/Christened on the same day were Twins.
.
But, such may not always be the case.
.
And, following on from that, 'Yes', the Family certainly could have brought two (x2) Children to be Baptized/Christened that were born at different times (Months; or, Years, apart)
.
Now ...
All that said ...
.
As an aside ...
.
Another consideration ...
.
It also depends on WHEN in 1837 that the Baptism/Christening took place.
.
In England and Wales, "Civil Registration" commenced in the Third (July, August, September) Quarter in 1837.
.
IF, the Baptism/Christening took place DURING and AFTER that Third (July, August, September) Quarter in 1837, you may get lucky and find the "Civil Registration" for "Birth", for one, possibly BOTH, of those Children.
.
I know this is not much help; but, I hope this this gives you some perspective (and, other avenues).
.
Again, just my thoughts.
.
Brett
.
0 -
Thank you for the effort you went to for answers to my questions! The articles were informative!
0 -
I wouldn't quibble with anything that Brett wrote above. I can only speak from the contents of my research and the orders of the services as listed in the Book of Common Prayer (for the Church of England).
In general if you are trying to sort out a discrepancy between the baptism and another source, it is wise not to be too reliant on either. People don't always tell the full truth! On the other hand, my experience is that details on baptisms are more likely to be incorrect than those on civil registrations. Whether people are happier to lie to the parish priest or there is a degree of collusion between the priest and his flock, I've no idea. But certainly, working from memory, I have at least one baptism where the recorded father cannot be traced and I do wonder if he is just a made-up name. If the latter, then that would confirm that there is no requirement for both parents to be present. And of course, there are plenty of reasons why a father might not be there anyway - "My husband's a soldier, he was on leave 9m ago but he's in India now..."
As for the difference between a baptism and a christening - there isn't any as far as the Church of England today is concerned. Any use of both terms in a register can (usually) be put down to the clerk simply getting bored and using the other word. Further, when you look at the text of the CofE service, none of the supposed differences make any sense - for instance, the child is named and "dipped" in one sentence, so the naming is not a separate step.
Having said all that, there is a suspicion that some parishes used the 2 words differently ages ago - but no-one is wholly sure what they meant! The best guess is probably that the 2 words were used when the child was firstly privately baptised and then, subsequently brought before the congregation - possibly as part of another service. But which word refers to which? Guessing...
And yes, multiple baptisms in the one family are, 99% of the time, children born at different times. People will often say, "Oh, they were saving them up because it was too far to walk to church..." Well, in my experience, the church is usually just a few streets away and it's more likely that they simply hadn’t got round to it. If you look at the entries in the register, very often there'll be 2 or more pages of baptisms all on the same day - presumably a new, energetic curate going round checking on his flock....
0 -
Thanks for your information. I have a family that there were 4 different children listed as twins because they were "Christened or baptized" on the same day. I didn't feel like it was true and that the parents were just bringing them in on the same day because they hadn't done it earlier. Is there anyway to find out the mother's maiden name on a civil registration entry for England besides ordering the record? I find children born in the area that I am searching where they are listed in the indexes and not in church records and am wondering if its worth it to send for the record especially when its a gamble because it doesn't show the parent's name.
0 -
Mother's Maiden Name is on the fairly new GRO Site - go to https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp - it's free to register and search. The indexes include MMN, so you can search to find a MMN and then do more searches using the MMN as a search parameter.
It's a bit clunky because you must specify the sex of the child and you can only do plus or minus 2 on the year.
0 -
That's exciting. I will try that. I thought I had seen a place that showed the Mother's maiden name. That would be a big help and save me money.
0 -
Yes, you should register straight away! I have been working through two families today. Both with fathers named John Miller and mothers named Isabella, and living in County Durham at the same period of time. The maiden names (shown only on the GRO website, I believe) helped me correct several errors where children had been attached to the wrong couple(s).
If you are dealing with a common name (like Miller) it is best to add the mother's maiden name (if you know it, of course!) in the search field provided. However, be careful about choosing the "Exact Matches Only" option. One of my Isabellas had a maiden name of HOWDEN, but I initially missed one or two of her children's birth registrations because the name had been spelled as HOWDON, instead.
The database is far from perfect and needs to be used alongside the ones in FamilySearch or FreeBMD, due to some incorrect transcriptions and other items that are missing altogether. Incidentally, a "blank" in place of the maiden name usually means an illegitimate child. If the mother was very young, the census will often suggest the child was a child of the grandparents, but I have generally found the GRO index to record the more "honest" position regarding parentage.
0 -
Just to add to Paul's reply - occasionally an illegitimate child is registered with the names of both parents. The new GRO index handles such children differently from the earlier ones such as FreeBMD. In the latter, the child is registered once but indexed twice - under both the surname of the mother and the surname of the father. In the new GRO index, they changed the rules - though I'm not certain that they realized it! In the new GRO index, the child is registered once only and under the father's surname. Which is sometimes a total pain if that name was never used again.
0 -
questions like this rarely have answers that have been totally consistent across the records.
Surely cases varied across religiious sect, time, location, circumstance, context and numerous other factors . . .
trying to stereo type the situation often doesnt help explain the exceptions.
0
