Denmark record I need help reading
Folks: Could someone who fully understand this record tell me if the information for "Johanne Marie Jensen" is accurate in the index? Meaning the index shows mother's name but not Father's.
Also, does this record show the birth dates of either parent?
個答案
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No birth date is given for the mother of Johanne Marie Jensen but she is 24 years old, the father is not named.
Trevor, did you already have her Naturalization record for 1909? 0 -
1890 census for Johanne Marie Jensen, she is a foster child.
Name: Johanne Marie Jensen
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1890
Event Place: Nordby, Samsø, Holbæk, Danmark
Event Place (Original): Nordby, Samsø, Holbæk, Denmark
Gender: Female
Age: 0
Marital Status: U
Marital Status: Single
Birth Year (Estimated): 1890
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1909 Ellis Island Passenger list for Johanne Marie https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T3-YQYG-D?i=709&cc=1368704&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJX12-X2S
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1901 census Johanne Marie is a foster child with Jens Peter Degn. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS21-BHXC-2?i=1459&personaUrl=/ark:/61903/1:1:QL6R-W8JN
1903 confirmation for Johanne Marie does not name her father.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=167002#167002,28041181
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Her mother is listed as a milkmaid, Marie Jensen of the dairy cooperative at Sögård (South Farm). The baby's birth date is 11 Aug 1889; christened at home 28 Aug; christened at the church 22 Sep. Father not listed. Jens Peter Degn, her future foster parent, is one of the witnesses.
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Shari: I didn't have that. I've added it to the documents of her file and logged it. Thank you! BTW, where did you find that?
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Shari: I'll add this source. 2 questions: 1) How did you discover this source? It appears to already be in FamilySearch yet it wasn't coming up as a suggestion. 2) What part of it indicated she is a foster child?
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Added. Again, I don't know how you found these as already indexed records in FS. Do tell...
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Melanie:
Thank you for translating that record. I've updated the referenced source for others to read.
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So is the mother's name not Marieke Marie Jensen?
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Her occupation was listed first and was mistaken as a first name. The actual word is Mejerske which is an archaic Danish word for milkmaid.
Generally, in Danish christening records of this era, the cleric usually lists the occupation first, then the name of the parent.
Also, just as a BTW, the source you linked to is the actual birth and christening record, not an index. I don't know if that actually matters or not.
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The way people can see she is a foster child is from the term "pleibarn" which means "foster child". (Sometimes written "plejbarn" or other closely related spellings.) This is usually written in the census records in the column for stating the relationship to the head of the household.
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Trevor, not all records that match the person you are searching for will appear as hints. I always go to FamilySearch, Search Historical Records and you also see I searched Ancestry.com
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Naturalization found at Ancestry.com You can tell by the dark banner at the top this is one of their records.
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Thank you. I updated the source to read "Denmark Church Records, 1484-1941. Birth and christening record"
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Thank you, Melanie, for your very strong details. I couldn't have gotten this right without correct interpretative details of the record.
Just so I have this accurate. We have Johanne Marie Jensen (Borm 11 August 1889) who is a foster child to Marie Jensen. We don't have record of a father, just a witness from her future foster parent "Jens Peter Degn".
Can we assume Marie Jensen becomes Johanne's foster mother? I assume we can not.
I also do not want to assume Jens peter DEgn and Marie Jensen were married without evidence of that.
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Shari: Can you help me with that second (1903) source? I can open it, just not able to understand how to source it. I can use the link but what do I put as the source field?
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The 1903 record comes from a parish church record found in the Danish National Archives located at website sa.dk. Titled Arkivalieronline. Does this help with your citation? You might be interested in a wonderful program that attaches sources and creates a citation when you find them to FamilySearch. It is called RecordSeek. When you find a record you go to RecordSeek and choose "attach a source", then choose FamilySearch and continue with adding what information you desire. You can add tags, change the title, etc. It automatically creates a citation for you. If you don't mind, I'll create one for Johanne Marie as an example and you can decide if you like it or not. Here is an image in this process. RecordSeek.com
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Thank you. That was helpful.
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You are very welcome Trevor.
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@Trevor K Hanson, I believe this record is the 1868 death record for Johanne Marie Larsdatter, although the last name shows as Jørgensdatter (error by the priest?). Notice she is the widow of Jørgen Christensen Nibe living in Storaistrup (Store Ajstrup). The word Nibe is the specific identifier that makes this an excellent match. Also, the age fits reasonably. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=359105#359105,70498466
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@Trevor K Hanson
For clarity's sake, I'll just put it all out here.
In a Danish christening record of this era, if the mother is married, then you would see listed first the occupation of the father, his name, then Danish words like "og hustru" which means "and wife" and her name because she is the mother, and then the name of the place they lived.
In a christening record of a baby with an unwed mother, you usually see what we see with this one. First, the occupation, if any, of the birth mother, the birth mother's name, her place of residence, and lastly, if she chooses to reveal the name of the biological father, he will be named and labeled something like "barnfader" meaning "father of the child", followed by his place of residence, and sometimes his occupation and marital status, such as bachelor or widower.
To clarify - what this record is telling us is that Marie Jensen was Johanne's birth mother. Marie Jensen was apparently unmarried and it appears she chose not to reveal the name of the baby's biological father to the parish cleric/clergy who wrote this record.
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A christening record is very different from a census. A christening is a religious ordinance. It is done by clergy and written up in a record book by them. A christening is basically the baptism of an infant. The cleric sprinkles holy water on the child's head and says ceremonial words and states the child's official Christian name. In this case, Johanne Marie.
There have to be witnesses and godparents in attendance to make it official. All these adults are listed in the christening record too. One of the duties of a godparent is to care about the child's spiritual and physical welfare. Jens Peter Degn ended up doing this literally by taking in Johanne Marie as a foster child. Her mother either couldn't take care of her or gave her up willingly for some other reason, or perhaps died. Any of those situations would have basically left Johanne Marie an orphan.
It is in the government census that we see Johanne living with the Degn family and listed as a foster child.
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Shari:
Sorry for being a bit slow. For whom is this suggestion for? Are you referring to the mother of Johanne Marie Jensen? Who I currently have as Marie Jensen.
I ask because Johanne Marie Jensen, daughter of current Marie Jensen, was born 1889 and died 1969. If you are showing a death record of 1868, perhaps that is for Johanne Marie Jensen's mother. This is the current family unit (I say unit because Marie Jensen and jen Peter Degn were not married, or at least that I could tell, and Jens Peter Degn was only the foster father of Johanne Marie Jensen).
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I'm referring to Johanne Marie Larsdatter b. 1785 who married Jørgen Christensen.
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There is no relationship between Jens Peter Degn and Marie Jensen, I'd suggest removing that from FamilySearch because it is a bit confusing and makes it appear these two people had a relationship and they didn't.
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@Trevor K Hanson, from what I can gather from the above, it sounds like Marie Jensen is Johanne's birth mother and that Jens Peter Degn is Johanne's foster father.
I agree with Shari's suggestion to remove the relationship between Jens Peter Degn and Marie Jensen in the tree, since we do not know of any relationship between them. In the tree, Johanne Marie Jensen is correctly listed as a foster child of Jens Peter Degn and Ane Kathrine Hjorth, but for the second listing of parents, I would suggest clicking on the "edit" button in the lower left corner of Johanne Marie's box and then clicking "Remove or Replace" next to Jens Peter Degn's name; removing his name from here will not remove him in the first parental/foster listing but will make it clear that he and Marie Jensen were not in any relationship that we know of.
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I agree it is confusing. However, I'm not sure how to keep her Mother listed and her foster father but just not show them in a relationship. I see you edited the record. Appreciate the clarification.
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I have made the suggested change in FS for Marie Jensen and Jens Peter Degn. I believe it now reflects a more accurate story for the life of Johanne Marie Jensen, her mother and her foster parents. I hope you don't mind my making the change, I try to be helpful and not overbearing.
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Thanks for making such edits. I don't mind and if I did, I would need to deal with it. As you and I both know, these are not Mine or Your records, they are open for everyone to edit and help get more accurate. Your responses have only been helpful and are always welcome!!!
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