Someone has added a child to a Norwegian family I entered many years ago. The family was in Rollag,
parish in Buskerud. I don't think it is a farm name. The child is not listed in the Digital Archive for the year and date they have associated with the record. The family is Knud Evansen (LZZX-1GG) and Sigri Pedersdatter (2736-3F4) and the chlld in question is Peder Knudson Saetre (LHSW-388). Does this child belong to this family? There should be more children in the family and perhaps they moved, in which case, I'd like to find all the children that belong.
個答案
-
Hello William, you could contact the contributor and ask if they have a christening record as their source. I saw this for a possible location, a village in Veggli parish.
0 -
Christening record for Peder Knudsen in Veggli to Knud Evensen and Sigrid Pedersdatter. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7764/22 But that doesn't mean they are the same couple, more study would be needed.
0 -
This map may be helpful.
0 -
@anka haslam1 Please give us your thoughts. Thank you!
0 -
Tveiten is a farm in Rollag Parish, Buskerud County, Norway. Looking at the birth records for Ole here: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/1119/116 and Peder here: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/1121/308 . Ole is born in Walle (farm #34) and Peder is in Tveiten aka Tvetten in the record (farm #32). I think these are children of the same parents.
I will attach a screen-shot of the two farms in Olaf Rygh's "Norwegian Farm Names".
0 -
Hi Shari. It certainly looks like Peder belongs to the family. I would check the confirmation records as well. I wonder when he left Norway for the US. Did he marry in Norway? If he had children in Norway did any of the known siblings show up as godparents? Was he a godparent to his siblings' children? Does he show up in the 1865 census? Just a few questions🙂
0 -
This is going to be too long and confusing and you are going to have to think this through carefully. Don't just trust my judgement. I don't thinks I do.
This post will need to be spread over several answers, be sure to start here at the beginning and read them all:
I’m not sure if this will lead anywhere to answering your actual question, but I’m going to put down a few thoughts here as I look at this family and see what comes up. I’ll be offering a few additions and corrections for their Family Tree records as well.
Something I’ll be repeating here regularly is that is it very important to always put the full place name in Family Tree. Most people in rural Norway didn’t move around all that much so the place name is a very helpful identifier since so many people had the same name.
Also, to set some background, I see that Rollag parish (prestegjeld) had in 1800 five sub-parishes (sogn): Dagali, Nore, Rollag, Uvdal, and Veggli. By 1865 Nore parish had been split off and Rollag parish then just contained Rollag and Veggli sub-parishes
Starting with Knud Evensen. The death source for his record of 12 Oct 1865 in Rollag. This can bring you directly to the actual records at the Digitalarkivet:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061102320667
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315630361
These two records conflict in that one says he was living at Klevaneied and the other states Knipetak under Wihammer. (Spellings confirmed in the 1865 census). These are both in Rollag sub-parish.
His age and name match nicely, so assuming this is really his death record, once you decide, if this is even possible, where he was actually living, the full place name for his death would either of:
Klevaneie, Rollag, Rollag, Buskerud, Norway
Knipetak, Wihammer, Rollag, Rollag, Buskerud, Norway
If you don’t like to include the sub-parish along with the parish, you’d have Rollag just once.
The full place name for his burial would be:
Rollag Kirke, Rollag, Buskerud, Norway.
I can never remember exactly when the 1865 census was and always have to google it. Looking one more time, it was held on December 31. So the Knud Evensen in that death record should not be included.
To be thorough, however, I looked anyway and found this:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038097002224
Knud Evensen, born about 1793, living at Tveteiet with wife Helga Pedersdatter and daughter Sigrid Knudsdatter.
Evidently, there were two Knud Evensen born about 1793 in Rollag.
Does the wife Helga mean that the one in the census is not yours? Or is Helga a second wife? Who is Sigrid’s mother? That name is pretty suspicious because it was a common custom to name the first daughter in a second marriage after the first wife.
If the one in the census is yours, then the death record is on the wrong Knud and needs to be removed.
(To be continued)
0 -
Continued - Part 2
So a quick summary so I don’t confuse myself. We now have two conflicting possibilities:
Knut Evensen born 1793, married Sigri Pedersdatter, has two children Joran and Ole (maybe more not found yet), died in 1865 at Klevaneie or Knipetak.
Knut Evensen born in 1793, married Helga Pedersdatter, has child Sigrid (maybe more) born at Tveiteie, still alive in December in the 1865 census.
Or:
Knut Evensen born 1793, died 1865 at Klevaneie or Knipetak with no other information about him known at this point.
Knut Evensen born 1793, married Sigri Pedersdatter, has three children Joran, Ole, and Peder (maybe more not found yet), married Helga Pedersdatter, has child Sigrid (maybe more) and is alive in December 1865 in the 1865 census.
To confirm that there are really two Knud Evensen’s, they should both be in the 1801 census. Which they are:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058281000127
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01058281000908
Next step back from the two Knuds in 1865 would be Sigrid Knudsdatter birth record in about 1843.
Fortunately, this was indexed by FamilySearch and so is easy to find:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4YL-DXZ
Check the index for more children using this search:
gives no other results.
Checking for indexed marriage records for Rollag, there are three marriages for a Knud Evensen:
These indexes don’t include the father’s of the couple, but the actual records should which would be helpful in sorting out who is who.
Somewhat concerning at this point is that the marriage of Knud Evensen and Helge Pedersdatter is nine years after the birth of Sigrid to a Knut Evensen and a Helge Pedersdtter.
Going to Sigrid’s actual birth record here:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061116030231
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315630415
We see Signi born 26 June 1843, christened 2 July, at Tveiteneie The Ministerialbok states she is uægte, that is, illegitimate, which would be consistent with the marriage date. The Klokkerbok has ditto marks that imply she was ægte or legitimate. Both parents are living at Tveiteneie.
(To be continued)
0 -
Continued - Part 3
So it is time to jump forward to Knud and Helga’s marriage record.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111031138
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315630526
which show that they have both been previously married. We can see here their father’s names, Even Knudsson and Peder Helliksen. Knud is living at Tveiteneie. The record also lists his birth place which a bit difficult to read here but does not look to be either of the places where either Knud Evensen was living in 1801.
Going to the other two marriage records we can see:
Knud Evensen and Helge Halvorsdatter in 1842:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061116030312
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8557/166
This Knud was born at Wenaaseie and is the son of Even Gunulsen. He is listed as ungkarl so this is his first marriage.
The third marriage record is:
Knud Evensen and Sigrid Pedersdatter in 1825:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111030805
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111020222
Unfortunately, this record does not give the birthplace for the bride and groom, just their current residence and does not list father’s names. We have Knud at Lillebrække and Sigrid at Bekjorden.
To gather a bit more data, we have birth records:
Joran born most likely at Bekjorden since that is where her mother was living in 1825. Family Tree currently has her born at Veglie Farm. That is not correct. The notation Veglie on her christening record is which sub-parish she was born in and which church her christening was confirmed at on April 10. She was christened at home the day she was born.
Her correct birth place would be, most likely, Bekjorden, Veglie, Rollag, Buskerud, Norway (or Bekjorden gard, Veglie sogn, Rolag prestegjeld, Buskerud, Norway)
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111030694
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111020093
Ole born at Walleeje in 1827.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111030725
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111020178
Peter born at Tvetteneie in 1830
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061116030157
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20051111020308
Birth records for the two Knuds
For Knud the son of Even Gunnelsson born at Wenaas and christened 2 June 1793
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315620269
For Knud the son of Even Knudsson born at Fjøse and christened 16 December 1792
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315620266
Looking at the indexed record, the birth record for this Knud is attached to:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GSKK-4LK
This Family Tree record has Knud-1792 with wife Helge Pedersdatter and daughter Sigri.
(To be continued)
0 -
Continued - Part 4
This has gotten confusing. It needs a timeline.
December 1792 Knut born to Even Knudsson, Fjøse.
June 1793 Knut born to Even Gunnelsson, Wenaas.
1801 Census:
Knut son of Even Knudsson and Ragnil Gunulsdatter living at Bekjorden Nordre
Knut son of Even Gunnelsson who is noted to have been widowed twice, living at Wenaas
April 1825 Joran, daughter of Sigid Pedersdatter living at Bekjorden and Knud Evenson living at Lillebrække is born
June 1825 Knut Evensson and Sigrid Pedersdatter get married. Their fathers and birth places are not listed. Knut is living at Lillebrække and Sigrid is at Bekjorden.
October 1825 Ole, son of Knud Evensson and Sigrid Pedersdatter is born at Walleeje.
April 1830 Peder, son of Knud Evensson and Sigrid Pedersdatter is born at Tveiteneie.
January 1842 Bachelor Knud Evensson and Helge Halvorsdatter get married. It is his first marriage, she is a widow. Knud was born at Wenaaseie and is the son of Even Gunulsen. The FamilySearch index of Norwegian births does not show any children for them, but I'm not sure all years were indexed.
June 1843 Sigri, daughter of Knud Evensson and Helge Pedersdatter is born at Tveiteneie. She is illegitimate. Both parents are living at Tveiteneie.
October 1852 Widower Kund Evensson and Widow Helge Pedersdatter get married.
Knud is living at Tveiteneie, his birth place is difficult to read but looks to be Høgset, his father is Knud Evensson.
October 1865 - Knut Evensson dies at at Klevaneied or Knipetak under Wihammer
December 1865 - Knut Evensson living at Tveteiet with wife Helga Pedersdatter and daughter Sigrid Knudsdatter.
1875 Census - Knut Evensson and wife Helga Pedersdatter living at Tutterud
He is the only Knut Evensson in the census.
June 1884 - Knut Evensson, born 1792 at Hvambre died at Tveteneie
So are there two Knut Evenssons in the timeline or three? Or even four? If just two, which is what I really think, then one Knut just never could keep track of where he was born.
Looking at this, I think there are problems with Knut Evensson parents in Family Tree.
I would split the timeline like this:
Knud #1:
June 1793 Knut born to Even Gunnelsson, Wenaas.
1801 census - Knut son of Even Gunnelsson who is noted to have been widowed twice, living at Wenaas
January 1842 Bachelor Knud Evensson and Helge Halvorsdatter get married. It is his first marriage, she is a widow. Knud was born at Wenaaseie and is the son of Even Gunulsen. The FamilySearch index of Norwegian births does not show any children for them.
October 1865 - Knut Evensson dies at at Klevaneied or Knipetak under Wihammer
Knud #2:
December 1792 Knut born to Even Knudsson, Fjøse.
1801 census - Knut son of Even Knudsson and Ragnil Gunulsdatter living at Bekjorden Nordre
April 1825 Joran, daughter of Sigid Pedersdatter living at Bekjorden and Knud Evenson living at Lillebrække is born
June 1825 Knut Evensson and Sigrid Pedersdatter get married. Their fathers and birth places are not listed. Knut is living at Lillebrække and Sigrid is at Bekjorden.
October 1825 Ole, son of Knud Evensson and Sigrid Pedersdatter is born at Walleeje.
April 1830 Peder, son of Knud Evensson and Sigrid Pedersdatter is born at Tveiteneie.
June 1843 Sigri, daughter of Knud Evensson and Helge Pedersdatter is born at Tveiteneie. She is illegitimate. Both parents are living at Tveiteneie.
October 1852 Widower Kund Evensson and Widow Helge Pedersdatter get married.
Knud is living at Tveiteneie, his birth place is difficult to read but looks to be Høgset, his father is Knud Evensson.
December 1865 - Knut Evensson living at Tveteiet with wife Helga Pedersdatter and daughter Sigrid Knudsdatter.
1875 Census - Knut Evensson and wife Helga Pedersdatter living at Tutterud
He is the only Knut Evensson in the census.
June 1884 - Knut Evensson, born 1792 at Hvambre died at Tveteneie
You’ll need to analyze this yourself and come to your own conclusions. But I think that Sigrid Pedersdatter as she stands in Family Tree is married to the wrong Knud. The one she is with now, has the wrong parents, wrong birth date, and wrong death date. I think her proper husband is https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GSKK-4LK
Oh, and yes, it does appear that Peder belongs in the family.
0 -
Two additional minor notes:
Helge Halvorsdatter is listed in her marriage record with Knud Evenson of Wenaas as a 42 yo widow so that would explain why I could not find any children for them in the FamilySearch index of Norwegian births.
I did take a look for her in the 1865 census and found this:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038097001228
showing her at Knipetak with is a husmannsplas under the farm Wihammer according to this census. This is completely consistent with the death record in 1865 for the Knud Evensson whose one copy of his death record states he was at Knipetak.
Secondly, I poked around in the FamilySearch index and there are no birth records for Rollag for 1829 through 1834. To find additional children for Knut and Sigri you will have to go one line at a time through those parish registers. Since Peder was born in April 1830, you could probably start in January 1832 and just check through 1832 through 1834.
Another piece of data that might throw some light on things is when Sigri died. One would assume it was sometime between 1830 and 1843. I'll take a look and post it if I can find it.
0 -
Here is the death record for Sigri Pederdatter 40 or 42 years old living at Tvetteneie
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20061116030352
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315630543
She died 30 May 1838, Tvetteneie, Rollag, Buskerud, Norway
and was buried 6 June 1838, Veggli Kirke, Rollag, Buskerud, Norway
The census records say she was born in Rollang. Her marriage record says she was born at Oset in Opdal. Could Opdal be an older name for Uvdal subparish?
Also, one more fact that would add credence to my theory that the Knut Evenson born at Wenaas, the son of Even Gunnelsson is the one that married Helge Halvorsdatter is that Helge Halvorsdatter residence as listed in their marriage record is Wehammar. So that Knut was born at Wenaas, lived there until he got married, moved to where his wife lived at Wehammar and stayed there until he died in 1865 and had no children.
It was the other Knut, born at Fjøse according to his birth record but born all over the place according to his other records who moved all over the parish, had a child before marrying the mother a couple of months later, was widowed, had another child then married the mother nine years later but did finally settle down at Tvetteneie and stay there until he died in 1884.
0 -
Here is another child, Knud Knudsen with parents Knud Evensen and Sigri Pedersdatter Tvetteneie in 1836
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070315630048
I found Knud Knudsen on MyHeritage website at this link
Best of luck with your research, Diane M Anderson
0
