Is it possible for someone to take a look at my tree as to double check my work?
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It indicates on Hilda's christening that her father is from Sweden ? so that that might make it a little more challenging. Hilda is illegitimate and this is the first transgression for her parents.
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Okay now that Sweden has come up, it seems I am a little confused on how to proceed
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I'd suggest others review the christening to see if they feel is it saying Sweden, I'm not positive. It is always best to work from the known to the unknown, so in order to track Hilda's father you need to see every record for him in Norway. See if he stays, marries, dies, etc. Check coming into the parish records and the going out of the parish records. Like Gordon said he could be traveling around with his occupation of carpenter.
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Sorry I vanished. I was poking around to find out about Karen Hansdatter Engen, the probable Hilda’s mother and fell into a bit of a rabbit hole. I landed in a bit of a mess with Karen Hansdatter Engen’s husband, Amund Johannesson. He and Karen had a daughter who emigrated to North America and her descendants have done a lot of work. She has a lot a good sources on her (Anna Amundsdatter Sjøenden: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LKYF-SKV ). Unfortunately, the actual Family Tree entries for the family were missing a lot of sources and a couple of her siblings. And Amund Johannesson had been mixed up with a different Amund Johannesson in Grue and with a third Amund Johannesson in Tolga parish. That third Amund’s family was split in to several parts in Family Tree and had duplicates all over the place. I spent most of yesterday evening and today separating out the three different Amunds, collecting and merging duplicates, adding sources, and completing data. Turns out Amund Johannesson is a very common name in Hedmark and one is very dependent on residences to figure out who is who.
I did go ahead and create a record for Hilda Johnsdatter based on the definite information that she was the daughter of John Pettersen Gravaas and Karen Hansdatter Engen ( https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GSLR-KS4 ). I did not merge her with your Hilda. I’ll let you make that final decision.
Now back to John Pettersen Gravaas. Here is a list of farms in Grue:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Grue_Parish,_Hedmark,_Norway_Genealogy#Farm_Names
If this is complete, there is no Gravaas or similarly names farm in Grue.
The online map of Norway I use, https://www.norgeskart.no does not list any farm or village by the name of Gravaas or Gravås in Hedmark.
In that case, if Gravaas really is his surname and not a residence, and I would not expect a carpenter to take a farm name anyway other the farm of his birth, there is a good chance that Gravaas was his name in Sweden. (I must have been lazy when I read the christening record, I didn’t notice the third line that Shari pointed out. It definitely says he was from Sweden.)
But what to do now? I would just work to complete everything you can with the family in Norway, getting very familiar with those records and how to read them. You have a lot to do to clean up and source those records.
Few people are harder to follow thorough time than wandering single male workmen who come to town then depart, leaving just a child behind.
It isn’t impossible, however. For example if you put Gravås in this map of Sweden:
https://kso.etjanster.lantmateriet.se/#
there are only three Bebyggelse and two Trakt, which I think are both populated areas, in the county with that name and all are in the western part of the country, not that far from Hedmark. Guessing his possible age then going through move-out records from these area looking for someone going to Norway might find him.
You should go through the move in and move out records for the years surrounding Hilda's birth. Maybe there will be some information about him if you are lucky.
A very long term project is to try to find him in the 1865 Norwegian Census. Searching for men whose names start with Jo* and Pet*| Ped* who were born in Sweden gives 107 results. A lot could probably be eliminated by birth year. But again, I would get all your Norwegians in as good of shape as you can before you move on to Sweden.
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@Gordon Collett you did return and with such great info. It's like a great story that I can't wait to hear the next chapter. I'm very pleased to see you are adding this information to the tree in FamilySeach. I know if this were my family and I discovered this little gold mine I'd be so thrilled.
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Gordon, this presentation is fabulous! I do extensive Swedish research, so sometimes people assume that I'm also an expert at Norwegian and Danish research, as well. While the results of my efforts in finding Norwegian records are satisfactory, making it easier is always appreciated. As a T&FH Consultant, this presentation will not only help me when trying to find those records, but giving this to the patron will help them to help themselves. Thank you.
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Sorry for not getting back in touch with you
I started a new job and have had little time for anything but work
I have done a little research but nothing definitive Gordon you have done an awesome job and I have a lot to think about and research
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Also Gordon or Shari have either of you looked at Hilda's sources are even right or make any sense what so ever
I dont just click buttons on here to add people but i have only been doing family history for maybe a month
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Are you asking us about sources attached to Hilda in FamilySearch? Hilda Johnsdatter Engen GSLR-KS4 has sources added by Gordon and they look great. Do you have another record of Hilda you have created? If so, then we should merge records.
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No I have not made another Hilda just making sure I am researching accurately if that makes sense
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This family is on a solid foundation provided by Gordon. As previously mentioned, tracking Hilda's father is complex because the couple are not married at the time of Hilda's birth and so he could be moving anywhere. Remember he's from Sweden. Gordon summarized a strategy in posts above. This would be a challenge for even experienced individuals.
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I had not looked at the United States sources for your Hilda:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/LRRC-H4B
except for her Find-A-Grave record which has her birthdate as 25 Jan 1850 which is close enough to Hilda Jonsdatter Engen's birth date of 25 Jan 1851 for them to be the same person.
Glancing though those sources now, not enough to say if they all are for the correctly attached, I'll see if I can find time to do that later today, I do see that there is one source that I would take as solid confirmation that the two Hildas are the same person:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XJ2S-22L?from=lynx1UIV8&treeref=LRRC-H4B
In this marriage record for a daughter, she is recorded as Hilda Johnson Sjenden.
When Hilda Johnsdatter Engen was ten years old, her mother married Amund Johannesson Sjøenden and moved to the Sjøenden farm. At that time, Hilda would have also taken on that farm name and been known as Hilda Johnsdatter Sjøenden. Finding that name in the US marriage record ties everything very nicely together and I would be very comfortable with you merging:
Hilda: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/LRRC-H4B
and
Hilda: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LRRC-H4B
Keeping the correct birth information in Norway and replacing the incorrect date from her Find-A-Grave birth date.
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Ok thank you
I will continue on with it
Gordon did a fantastic job
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@White, Christopher Richard would you like us to merge the records for you? PID for Hilda Johnsdatter Engen GSLR-KS4 and Hilda Jonsdotter LRRC-H4B.
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Yes please and thank you
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The Sjenden spot is what I am questioning now too
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Source Analysis for Hilda Johnsdatter Engen
As always, it is critical to start with the most recent, best information then work back from what is known to what is not known to make sure one is really working on ones own family.
In this case, a great starting point is the biography written by the daughter of Charlotte Larson. Although this biography does not have sources, one can assume information that would be her person knowledge would be accurate but that older information passed down from her parents and grandparents could be less so, especially for information regarding dates and place names in Norway that she may not be familiar with. This biography gives a good basic structure for the family and I’ve attached it as a source for Henry and his wife.
Another good step is to check for obituaries. Googling quickly brought up one for Charlotte Larson which I attached to her. It gives her birth information and parents names but no siblings. Siblings names would have let one be very confident in identifying the family in census records.
However, since the author of the biography would be expected to correctly identify her aunts and uncles, that biography is sufficient to lead to the census records. However, the biography gives different birth dates Charlotte’s siblings than are found in Family Tree and Family Tree lacks the two siblings that died as infants and are buried in Union Prairie Cemetery.
The real backbone for a family’s records in Family Tree are the census records. For Hilda these should stretch from 1880 to 1920. Currently on her Family Tree records are these census:
Iowa - 1895 - close birth year, correct husband, five children, with correct names but with Sophia and Hattie with reversed birth order
US - 1900 - correct birth info, correct husband, five children with correct names but Sophia and Hattie with reversed birth order
US - 1910 - correct birth info, correct husband, three daughters with correct names but again with Sophia and Hattie with reversed birth order.
The discrepancy between the birth dates for the children as given in Family Tree and the biography need to be explained, maybe just by having primary birth records and saying the biography is wrong or by determining that the wrong birth records have been attached!
Records for the US 1880 census and the US 1920 census for Hilda need to be found if possible as do the Iowa state census records for Hilda for 1885, 1905, and 1925. (I found her in the Iowa 1915 census, along with two of the children, and attached that to their records. These are bit tricky because they are filmed in alphabetical order but families are numbered sequentially on individual cards. Hilda is card 123, Sophia is card 124, and Charlotte is card 125. That is what lets you know you have found the entire family and that it is the correct people. I’ll let you have the fun of finding Hilda and Charlotte in the same household in the 1920 US census.)
Looking at the other US records currently Hilda’s record, there are three Iowa Marriages indexes. These all have the same name for bride and groom and same marriage date and place so they are either all correct or incorrect. Original images can be viewed for all of these at a Family History Center and might have more information to confirm this is the right couple. The biography does not give a marriage date. Shari attached the marriage record from Ancestry and the indexes might just point to three copies of this image. The source does match fine with the birthdate of their first daughter four years later and census records.
Next is a death record source from Minnesota which has a date that matches the biography except for being off a year. So that is probably an accurate source as long as one can find something to support that she died in Minnesota.
Next is a Find A Grave source that is clearly for her but is not really useful for documenting anything because the Find A Grave “source” has no sources and no photograph. Someone just typed it in from somewhere unknown. But it does have a contributor name and you might be able to get more information about the family if you contact her
Next come records for children:
Delayed birth record for Hattie - this has her full name and the full birth date that she claimed. It is quite different from the birth information for her in Family Tree but matches with the biography and all the census records. This is a correctly attached source. (Changing her birth information to what the source record state would fix the birth order problem noted above.)
Birth record for Charlotte - matches biography, obituary. Is correctly attached.
Five marriage records for children. These all look correctly attached.
In summary - looking at all the sources on Hilda, they do all look correct. Some of them have information that needs to be used to correct Family Tree, including adding some type of mention of the two other brothers. More census records need to be found. I would suggest that you finish cleaning up Henry and Hilda’s family in the United States by getting the information out of the sources and into the tree and finding additional sources before working too much more in Norway.
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That Sjenden spot is actually wonderfully fortunate, because it gives you a firm connecting source between Hilda in the US and her step father in Norway. The Sjenden/Sjøenden connection is just too perfect to be a coincidence. It was really lucky that on at least that one occasion she used it for her maiden name.
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