Translation of 1639 Karg Marriage

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

This one may be a challenge! I have determined this is a 1639 marriage record from Abstatt, Württemberg, for Hannß Karg and Catharina, daughter of Jorg ? on the 24th Sunday[?] after Trinity Sunday. (18 November 1639?) I can also make out the words that may be "Gerichts alhier" but the rest is not legible to me. (Hannß was a widower, if that is helpful information.) I would greatly appreciate any help in transcription and translation of the entry which is at the bottom of the attached image.

Thank you!

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

JohnsonGreg

I can see "Sp_d__s" for Geörg's surname so Speder makes sense. I see the Geörg Speder in other records (listed below) is also a Zimmermann so that might be her father.

The 1639 marriage is on image 924 of 1060 here:

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61023/images/1187120-00923?treeid=&personid=&rc=&queryId=0cfd80e3-bb8e-4887-8408-cd8e39680d3c&usePUB=true&_phsrc=xWz6905&_phstart=successSource&pId=614201364

It may help others figure out the other words by looking at other similar marriage records from the same film.

Image 923, Jan 1634 the Burger, Zimmermann, and widower Geörg Speder remarries. (His previous wife Anna died September 1634, see Image 1004). If this is Catharina's father then he would have died between 1634 and 1639 but those death records are missing.

Image 921 Geörg Speder's son (Hanss Geörg Speder) marries.

Ulrich Neitzel

@Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

Nice work! I think it will not be possible to "read" the name of Catharina's father with certainty in this record. But if you find a name in other records of this parish and time that is compatible with the hieroglyphs here that's a good start. "Speder" seems to be such a name.

When compared with the preceding records, the last sentence seems to read:

Der Herr gebe Ihnen seinen Segen. ___ ___ ___? Amen

Translation of the full record:

24th Sunday after Trinity
in the same year [1639]
Hans Karg, citizen and councillor here, and Catharina, surviving widow of Georg Speder, also former citizen and carpenter here. May the Lord bless them. ___ __ __? Amen.

Comment: In the year 1639 there was no 24th Sunday after Trinity Sunday in the Gregorian calendar. However, in the Julian calendar (which was still used in Württenberg until 1700) the 24th Sunday after Trinity was 24 November 1639.

Ulrich Neitzel

@Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

This record is indeed a challenge! Before attempting a translation, I would suggest transcribing the record as completely as possible. Maybe other volunteers can check and complete my first attempt:

Dnca 24 post Trinit.
Anno idem
Hanns Karg Bürger? und deß Gerichts? alhier? und Catharina Geörg
____art auch geweßnen Bürgers? und Zimmermanns alhier hinterlaßene
Wittib. Der Herr gebe Ihnen seine ___ ___ ___ ___

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

Ulrich Neitzel,

Here is what I cobbled together from both our attempts to read this entry. I found a Geörg Speder in records from the same time period. What do you think? The ink is so faint!

Transcription:

Den 24. Post Trintat

Anno odom.

Hannß Karg Hanns Karg Bürger? und deß Gerichts alhier und Catharina Geörg Speders auch geweßen Bürgers? und Zimmermanns alhir hinterlaßene Wittib. Der Herr gebe Ihnen seine seng? d? glifin ? Amen

Note - I have been writing my grocery list in German script using Pennsylvania Dutch spelling to practice both skills. I may figure this out yet!

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

Thank you, Ulrich Neitzel and JohnsonGreg. Your additions gave me a few more rabbit holes to explore. You have provided some very useful information to guide more research.

I need to prepare for Thanksgiving tomorrow, but it is hard to resist digging deeper in the churchbook! I enjoy these records even though they are often difficult to understand.

Bless you for your generous help!

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

JohnsonGreg

I see I misunderstood. Since Catharina Is Georg's widow (not his daughter) then the 923 Image is her marriage to Georg and that record seems to give her father's name.

Cynthia McClanahan Cruz

Thanks JohnsonGreg! I need to sort the records and names. You have been a big help!