Hungarian Reform church
I have a relative who was born in Mandok, Hungary around 1858. I have been unsuccessful in finding any information on her with routine searches and images. What records would hold information on her? She was Hungarian Reform. She later moved to Domrad. I have found her husband (Gyula Szegedi) baptismal and death information as well as the children's births. But she remains a mystery. Her name is Terezia Vig(h). No knowledge of parents or siblings. Thank you.
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The Reformed Church records for Mandok are in Mandok.
Here is a link to Terezia's marriage to Gyula Szegedi in the Demecser Reformed Church records. It gives her father's name as György, no mother's name is given, birth year approximately 1856:https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MPWK-B?i=408&cc=1858355&cat=177599
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What is your source for this birthplace and birthdate?
The index has one Reformed family named Vig that was having children in Mándok in the mid-1800s: György Vig, ropemaker, and Borbála Móré.
András 17 Sep 1859
János 25 Dec 1861, died 4 Jan 1862
Juliánna 15 Nov 1862
Juliánna 1 Apr 1864
Anna 1 Jan 1867
Mária 24 Nov 1869
Rozália 29 Sep 1872
János 7 Sep 1873András has a status of "legitimized"; the rest are marked "legitimate". Also unique to András's baptism is that György (the dad) is said to be ifjabb "the younger" in that entry. It's not repeated at the parents' marriage on 29 March 1860.
I searched the Mándok Reformed index for just "Terézia" and came up with a grand total of one entry (a completely different family, in 1867). This generally means that either the place is wrong — the name doesn't fit the local fashions — or the name is wrong. Perhaps in the place where she was recorded as "Terézia", that was a common name, but whatever nickname she went by was actually derived from a different name? In German-speaking places in Hungary, I have encountered a gazillion examples of Theresia alternating with Rosina, but this is clearly not a German-speaking community, so I'm reluctant to make that conclusion here. (I have even less support for the vague idea that perhaps Eszter could have been nicknamed Terka — and it wouldn't help in any case, as the Vig family did not have a daughter named Eszter, although it was a common name in Mándok.)
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Terēzia's family name is given variously as Víg, Vígh, Vég, Végh. I think the poster's info came from this record:https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y3S9-3LH7?view=index&action=view
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If you search for last name *g
place Mandok, Szabolcs
father's name G*
you'll find several György Vígs(various spellings) in Mandok at the relevant time, including a daughter Maria born in 1856. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-1M5S-P?cc=1743180&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AX23Y-LZN
I wonder if this is a case where the recorder got the parents' and sponsors' names reversed. Unfortunately, there is no 1869 census for Szabolcs county.
The Szegedi-Vig marriage is in the Demecser Reformed Church records, image 409/578. For some reason I can't get the link pasted properly.
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Thank you all for your input. I actually had seen those records from Demecser but I couldn’t read them. Would you mind translating the marriage records bet Gyula and Terezia? The citation is there in Christopher’s note. Also, Terezia is defintely from Mandok but I have not been able to locate her record. From a death certificate of their child, it listed her age and that would make her born around 1855-1858. Maybe, her given name is different—I have only seen her listed everywhere as Terezia. I found Gyula’s death registration from 1905 but have not found hers. He diedin Dombrad.
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Additionally, in 1897, Gyula and Teresa had a child by the name of Ilona. On the civil registration it is given that the mother's age is 39. So that would place her birth around 1858 or 1857.
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Translation help.
"Mándok, Szabolcs, Hungary Records," images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP9S-Q3 : June 28, 2024), image 88 of 178; Magyarország. Országos Levéltár. Entry for György Vig 5/1/1838. Can't read mother's name. Wondering if this isn't Terezia's father's baptismal record.
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I was looking through images of baptismal records from Mandok and I found Gyorgy Vig listed as godfather to Susanna Czap (?). She was born 6/8/1858. "Mándok, Szabolcs, Hungary Records," images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MPSM-J2 : June 28, 2024), image 44 of 200; Magyarország. Országos Levéltár. Can you translate?
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Additionally, a Czap (?) is listed as a godparent to Gyorgy Vig (born 1838). So was Susanna adopted by the Vigs and her name changed? or was she susanna Terezia? Wild guesses!
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The marriage record states that Terezia was the daughter of the late Gyorgy Vig, she was age 19 ( in June 1875), her religion was Reformed, her birthplace was Mandok, her residence was Demecser 351.
Later: I think the record also states that Terezia was an orphan. I don't know how to interpret that: whether she was adopted by Gyorgy Vig, or whether he was her biological father and both he and her mother were deceased.
Sometimes clergymen didn't record baptisms on the day of the baptism, but relied on their memory to record them at a later date. It's possible that the Reformed minister in Mandok simply forgot about Terezia's baptism.
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Thank you! I read that sometimes baptisms or births didn’t get recorded. I wish I could find her death registration. Her husband died in Dombrad and I assume she may have too—unless she remarried. Gyula died in 1905. Two of their children immigrated to the US. Erzebet Szegedi met her husband on the ship. He was a Herczeg from Bejc.
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First, the data dump.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MPWK-B?cc=1858355&cat=177599
Demecser Ref.
5. 30 June 1875.
Groom: youth Gyula Szegedi railroad guard, birthplace Pazony, residence Demecser railroad guardhouse number 351, Reformed, age 29, single.
Bride: the late György Vig's orphan maiden daughter Terézia, birthplace Mándok, residence Demecser, railroad guardhouse number 351, Reformed, age 19, single.
Witnesses: Mihály Teremi and Jósef Teremi.
Officiant: Imre Csiszár regular Reformed priest of Demecser.
Announced 3 times.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y3S9-3LH7?i=5
Demecser civil reg.
Number 8. Dated in Demecser, 15 October 1895.
Informant: Gyula Szegedi, agricultural day-laborer, Demecser, Nagy street number 141, whom the below-written registrar knows personally.
Father: Gyula Szegedi, Reformed, agricultural day-laborer, residence Demecser Nagy street number 141, birthplace Pazony, age 49 years.
Mother: Terézia Vigh, Reformed, residence Demecser Nagy street number 141, birthplace Mándok, age 37 years.
Birth: 14 October 1895, 8 a.m.
Child: girl, Reformed, Mária.
Margin: Dated in Demecser, 25 October 1895. The herein-entered child died and the death is entered in this registration district's death register for the current year under number 8.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-1M5S-P
Mándok RC
232. Born 29, baptized 30 Sept 1856.
Maria Anna, female, legitimate.
Georgius Vig, Reformed, craftsman, Anna Csobai, RC.
Mándok
Benjaminus Király, landowner in Ladány, Sara Fábián wife of Georg. Kozma.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-1MPT-G?i=160&cc=1743180
Mándok RC
22. Born 15, baptized 17 Apr. 1853.
Anna, female, legitimate.
Georgius Vig, Reformed, craftsman, Anna Csomakovics, RC.
Mándok number 112.
Stephanus Tilai rector, Clara Almasy maiden.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MPSM-J2
Mándok Ref.
25. Born 8, baptized 9 June 1858.
Susánna, female, legitimate.
Péter Czap, Reformed, day-laborer, Mária Csonka, Reformed.
Mándok number 72.
György Vig, ropemaker; Sára Gonda Mrs. János Berecz.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP9S-Q3
Mándok Ref.
1838, May.
Baptized 1st.
Parents: György Vig, Mária Szikszai.
Child: György.
Born 30th April.
Godparents: János Czap, Susánna Tóth Mrs. János Bohács.And one bonus: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP91-6H?i=356&cat=182054
Mándok Ref.
36. Died 24 May 1874.
Borbála Móré, wife of György Vigh ropemaker-craftsman.
Residence and birthplace Mándok, female, age 35 years.
Cause: cardiocele (cardiac hernia)
Burial: Mándok, own garden, 26 May.~~~~~~~~~~
Next, a correction: in the list of children for György Vig and Borbála Móré, I somehow got the wrong link attached to the 1862 Julianna. The correct one is https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MPSM-12?i=78&cc=1858355.
And now the ruminations…
Mándok number 112 is given as the ropemaker's address in the 1862, 1867, and 1872 Reformed baptisms, and the 1864 one says number 113. The rest don't give a house-number. The reason I bring this up is that the 1853 RC baptism also gives this number. (The 1856 one has no number.) Unfortunately, the RC baptisms both just have opifex "craftsman" — which could be the same as the Reformed register's kötélverő "ropemaker", but it could be any other craft, too.
The 1860 marriage says the groom was not previously married, which would indicate that the craftsman with the Catholic wife is a different György Vig than the ropemaker with the Reformed wife — but they're both at the same address. Need to page through the deaths for 1857-1860 in both the Catholic and the Reformed registers: perhaps there will be a wife's death record with a more specific occupation for the mixed-marriage craftsman?
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Here is the Vig-Csomakovics marriage in mandok reformed records:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP9Q-HB?i=319&cc=4133831&cat=182054
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Number 12. February 5. Groom and bride: György Vig, Anna Csomokovics. Position or status: Ropemaker, taxpayer. Religion: Reformed, RCath. Birthplace: Gejőcz, Unghvár. Residence: Mándok. Witnesses: Married in Császlotz.
Kisgejőcz and Nagygejőcz were in Ung county; they're now Velyki Heivtsi and Mali Heivtsi in Ukraine. Ungvár was of course also in Ung; it's now Uzhhorod, Ukraine. Császlócz, Ung county is now Chaslivtsi, part of Korytniany, Ukraine.
Császlócz had a Roman Catholic church locally, but like most places now in Ukraine, FS does not have any records from it. Ditto for the Reformed church in Nagygejőcz.
Ungvár had a church of every denomination except Lutheran, but FS (as far as I know) only has the Greek Catholic ones, in that jumble that's cataloged in Cyrillic letters (which I can't read).0 -
I'm confused(again)! Was there more than one ropemaker named György Víg in Mandok?
There was a ropemaker who married Anna Csomakovics 5Feb1844.
There was a ropemaker who married Borbála Moré in 1860.
Borbála's husband was alive when she died in 1874. Terézia's father( and mother) were dead when she married on 30Jun1875. No death record for György in the Mandok Reformed records between those times.
No death record for Anna Csomakovics in Mandok RC or Reformed records between 1853 and 1860.
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The only György Víg death record I could find in Mandok Reformed records(image 216/599), dated 13Jan1863:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP91-BW?i=215&cc=1858355&cat=182054
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There must have been father and son ropemakers. Terezia's father would have been the elder, or some non-ropemaking György Víg. If the former, then Terézia's mother was Anna Csomakovics.
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP91-BW?cc=1858355&cat=182054
1. 1863 13 January. György Vig master ropemaker. Mándok number 112. Male, age 67 years, cause phthysis [weakness/atrophy, usually tuberculosis]. Burial Mándok, the common cemetery, 15 January. Officiant István Almási minister.
Given that a man named György Vig continued having children in Mándok through 1873, and two of those birth/baptism records give the house-number as 112, I'm pretty sure that Christopher is right: these are father and son, both with the same name and the same profession.
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My meager translation of marriage record.
Date 30 Jun 1875
Groom: Gyula Szegedi Jr, railroad watchman, birthplace Pazony, residence Demecser 351, Reformed religion, age 29, bachelor
Bride: the late Gyorgy Vig's maiden daughter Terezia, birthplace Mandok, residence Demecser 351, Reformed religion, age 19, bachelorette
Witnesses: Mihaly Teremi, Jozsef Teremi
Officiant: Imre Csiszar
So you have three documents that state that Terezia was born in Mandok around 1857, yet her baptism doesn't appear in the church records.
Maybe her baptism was simply not recorded.
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Susan Herceg,
I don't think you'll find Terézia's death record. She was alive when her daughter emigrated in November 1908 and the Dombrad death records stop in 1909.
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It is all very confusing! That baptismal record I found with a Gyorgy born in 1838 (parents Gyorgy and Maria Szikszai) . He could be the one who married Borbala in 1860. Right age. Tereazia and Adras could have been legitimized after the marriage in 1860. The Gyyorgy that died in 1863 was 67—so he must have been born around 1796. The one that married in 1844 couldn't be Teresa's father because he was too old. Definitely the one that was born in 1838 was the "younger" or junior. Or was there a George born around 1820 ish, married in 1844. But that would have made him only 13 when Terezia was born. I am confused. Who was married to whom and living at same address?
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It appears that the György Víg who was married to Maria Szikszai was also a ropemaker:https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-MP93-YR?cc=4133831&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6N3M-Z52D
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I found Anna Csomakovics’ death record—4/28/1869 (55 yrs old ). Could you translate? Found in images for Mandok. Item #004665467 (item 2 of 5) image 181 of 261. Mandok 1853-1882. Do you think her husband, Gyongyi Vig died in 1863? On that death record there is no wife listed? Interestingly, there is a Julianna Vig living at same address with a death record on in Dec, 1862.
Was she the daughter of George and Barbara? They had another daughter, Julianna, born 1864.0 -
This Anna Csomakovics is the wife of Gabor Moratz, born Ungvar, residence Szaloka number 79, age 55.
I believe there were two Gyorgy Vigs, father and son, both ropemakers. I think the elder Gyorgy was married to both Maria Szikszai and Anna Csomakovics. I think Terezia was the daughter of Anna Csomakovics. I think the younger Gyorgy Vig was the son of Maria Szikszai and the husband of Borbala Moré.
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939J-1MPL-C?i=338 (Film 4665467 image 339 of 657.)
Number 24. Died 28 Apr. 1869.
Anna Csomakovics. - Wife of Gábor Morátz, craftsman.
Birthplace and residence: Ungvár, Szalóka house-number 79.
Female, age 55 years.
Cause: with natural death.
Last rites: provided.
Burial: 30 Apr.
Officiant: György Lisik organist.1 -
I've cleaned up the legacy-data duplicates and attached as many of the sources (both indexed and unindexed) as I remembered about or found: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/KCVS-SNX.
That's the elder of the two ropemakers named György Vig. He was born around 1796, per his age at death. He was married twice, first to fellow Calvinist Maria Szikszai, probably sometime around 1833 and probably in Mándok; after her death in 1843, he married the Catholic Anna Csomakovics in 1844 in Császlócz. We know this because the marriage was also recorded in the Mándok Reformed register. He died in 1863 in Mándok.
The hinting system and our searches between them have turned up seven children for the elder György, none of them the Terézia that you're looking for.
One of the children we have turned up is the younger György, born in 1838; he and Borbála Móré had a "prenuptial" son András in 1859, then got married in 1860 and had seven more children before Borbála died in 1874.
Based on the ages recorded for her, Terézia has to be Anna's daughter, which means that I would expect her baptism to be in the Catholic register, like Anna's in 1853 and Maria Anna's in 1858. I haven't investigated closely, but maybe the Mándok RC register is damaged or is missing pages?
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Thank you, Julia!
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This is the conclusion I came to also with all your help! I have found Anna's and Maria Anna's records. There was also a Lorintz but he died at 6 months-born in 1846. There may have been an Andras in 1848. I need help with more translation. I have been looking through images from Vas County, specifically Egergolgy and found Istvan Szummer and Eva Villadics marriage and each of their births and Istvan's death.
Translation help:
Marriage: image group # 004675729 image 37 0f 53 (item 3 of 6)— 4/18/1869.
Eva birth: image group #004675729 image 34 of 184 (item 1 of 6)—5/21/1849.
Istvan's birth: image group #004675729 image 30 of 184 (item 1 of 6)—11/10/1846.
Istvan's death: image group # 004675729 image 30 of 64 (item 6 of 6)—8/5/1889.
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