Kew National Archives – Searching Military Records; A Daunting Task?

norman johnsen

 I have been thinking about visiting the Kew Archives to search military records for the parents of Joseph Bresher – born 1811 in San Cristobal de La Cuesta, Spain.  I speculate that during the Peninsula War his father was in the 60th Regiment of Foot – or in a German unit - and that his birth might be recorded in  one of their Monthly Returns and/or in a Chaplain’s Report

A search of the National Archives yields the following;

WO/17/ 2465-2478 Monthly Returns from Spain/Portugal for 1810-1812-1813-1814.

WO/17/180   Monthly Returns for Regiment 60, 1810-1812

WO/17/805   Monthly Returns For German Legion 1 Hussars.

No WO/  /   for Chaplain’s Reports . Might they be among the papers  in WO/17/180?

WO/40/32  War Sec. In letters and Reports 1809-1815  (containing births?)

QUESTIONS.  Are Births contained in the Returns for individual Regiments (such as in 180 and 805) rather than in what I assume to be the more general reports of 2465-2478?   If Joseph’s birth is not recorded in any of these I would need to search records of the more than 70 other Regiments that were in Spain at the time. Or look through Muster Rolls. Both daunting tasks   

Why the 60th? Joseph joined that unit in 1830, retired in 1851 and died about 1864… His sons John and Thomas  also served in the 60th. They and their 4 sisters were born during Joseph’s assignments in Gibralta, Corfu and Canada.   These Breshers seem like a 60th Regimental family – probably with a German background.

Thanks for your help

Norman Johnsen

Tucson

   

 

 

              

norman johnsen

Since writing the questions above I can narrow the search to Joseph Brescher - a soldier on the 60th Regiment, 5th Battalion,. I found one Muster Roll with his name - and he most surely was the father of Joseph Bresher, born 1811 in Spain.

To find the mother I need the birth and marriage records.

To get more on the father I need the pension records... none pop up in my search of Ancestry, Find My Past nor the National Archives. Are other on-line sources avaiable? Do I need to go to Kew?

Norman Johnsen

Tucson

Shannon Potter Wilcox

@norman johnsen could this be your Joseph?

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/namesearch/?FirstName=Joseph&Surname=Bresher&RecordType=NotSelected&RecordDateStartYear=1700&RecordDateEndYear=2022&CollectionList=185&Step=1&ReceivedGallantryAward=False

norman johnsen

Shannon ...The Joseph Bresher you reference is the son...born 1811 in Spain. I am looking for his father and mother. I found one Muster Roll listing a Joseph Brescher in 1812 , Regiment 60, Battalion 5. The right place, time and military unit in Spain so they are very likely related as father and son.

Who was the mother? The father?

Ordinary soldiers in Battalion 5 were German sharpshooters - Joseph Brescher's service record would tell much about his military career and birthplace. How do I get this record? I cannot find it on the net and so must search the national records at Kew.

Also the marriage record?

Have you any clue as to which WO's would contain that info? I may be able to get to the archives in the fall. Contemplating a trip to London.

Thabks for responding

Norman

Shannon Potter Wilcox

@norman johnsen I am sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Let me get some additional help for you and see what we can find.

Shannon

@Graham Buckell @DavidBeck1 can either of you or both help Norman with his questions?

Thank you

DavidBeck1

@norman johnsen @Shannon Potter Wilcox @Graham Buckell

Hello

I think I have found Joseph's army record under the name of Brisher:

Here is the citation for Ancestry

I attach some notes found in MyHeritage

Joseph Bresher.xlsx

I am hoping if I can find a marriage record for this Joseph, there may be reference to his parents.

norman johnsen

Here is a muster payroll for Jos Brescher - for three months in1812 .... He is likely the father of the Joseph Bresher who was born in Spain in 1811. You located the son's pension record.

The record on muster roll ( WO 12/7075) is the only one I found of Jos Brescher on the internet. None on Find My Past nor on Family Search. I do not have Fold3.

https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/133773:60546?tid=&pid=&queryId=380d761301d9071268ec64dc2c52ce1d&_phsrc=cFv2376&_phstart=successSource

5th Battalion of 60th Regiment of Foot was a special unit - which in the early 1800's were recruited German marksmen....more than 900 under British officers. Jos Brescher was likely one of them. The 5/60 is not to be confused with the German Legion - a separate unit.

The son's 1811 birth record would identify the father and mother - and the father's service record would tell even more .. the father's birthplace and year, military career, retirement and so on. I think on-line sources have been gone through so originals at National Archives may be the only alternative. How to find them? I contacted several genealogists in England - none responded.

In mid September I have a chance to go to London to visit the National Archives and to followup on this search. It is not yet decided and in part depends on my having a clear understanding of how to specifically locate the records. What WO numbers are needed to find Service Records or Pension Records for someone in the 5/60 who served in the early 1800's in the Penninsula War.... Service records - which you found - for the son Joseph show his date of enlistment, various assignments, conduct and so on. A treasure trove I hope might be available for the father.

David - In short - I think the desired records are not digitized and - if originals exist - are to be found in Kew.

What specific WO Numbers will take me to those original records. I have struggled with undrstanding the National Archives catalogue arrangements.

Thanks David for all your efforts. @DavidBeck1

Norman Johnsen

Paul W

@norman johnsen

I wonder if the "Help Desk" at the National Archives could provide direct help. When I have visited, there is always someone ready to provide thorough advice on these matters. I have not checked, but isn't there an email / telephone contact for use with such queries?

As you realise, the arrangement / content of documents at TNA is quite complex (unless you are an expert!), so I believe contacting them directly is your best alternative here. However, for all their expertise, you will still be fortunate to find an archivist / advisor who will be au fait on the content of all of the huge range of documents in their holdings.

norman johnsen

Paul...Thank you for the response.

In the last several years I contacted two private researchers listed on the Kew website - One responded but did not take the job. I also received written advice from the Kew archivists which I tried to follow in preparation for a possible trip to London. I hoped to understand how material is organized but came away realizing it is a complex puzzle. I cannot find the magic key to unlock it all... I might go back to the archivist with more specific questions...

Here's hoping

Norman Johnsen

JulianLuttrell

I know this is a bit late, but there are a couple of books I use that help elucidate how things are organised at TNA in Kew.

1 Amanda Bevan, Tracing your Ancestors in the National Archives, published by the National Archives, ISBN 9781903365892. I have a copy of the 7th Edition from 2006. I believe this is out of print now, but there are quite a few copies available online.

This book is a reference work which covers both the why and the how of each (most) type of record to be found there.

2 William Spencer, Army Records - A guide for family historians, published by the National Archives, ISBN 9781905615100. This is more specialised than the Bevan book, covering just army records, and also touching on repositories outside the National Archives.

Julian

DavidBeck1

@JulianLuttrell

Marvellous! Thank you greatly.