Deleting an “Unknown Person”
Deleting an “Unknown Person”
I have been a subscriber to/ member of FamilySearch for a good few years and have been plodding along with family history research as and when other commitments permit. When I ran into a Brick Wall, I sought help by sending a message off to: ‘I know not where’, and most helpful written replies were quickly sent back which resolved the problem. However, that particular avenue of help appears to have been recently removed and I am not coping at all well with the replacement ‘Help System’.
One of my ancestors, a Great Grandfather: ‘Frederick Edward Gray’ (9WYJ-Q2T), (1859-1935) is currently shown as one of two husbands of ‘Mabel Sophia Dodson’ (LHSX-2W9) (1861-1890), the other husband is shown as ‘unknown', without a 4+3 ID number.
This second husband does not and never did exist, he needs to be removed from the system, but the last time I attempted to remove someone from the system I finished up in bigger muddle than if I'd let them stand as unknown.
I have found the following “Help Page” but cannot find a page to ‘Delete an Unknown Person”.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/help/helpcenter/article/how-do-i-delete-a-person-from-family-tree
Where do I currently turn to for help with deleting this unknown person?
Regards, Stay Safe,
JohnG_Swansea
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Not sure what you mean by an unknown father.
Mabel's spouses and children currently show as follows
I have circled (rather badly!) Frederick in blue. Add Spouse I have circled in red. This is usually used for children born out of wedlock when the father is not known. But, in this case, the children are duplicates of Frederick's children by his second wife. As such, they should be detached from Mabel by clicking the boxes circled in yellow and merged with the duplicates.
If you are unsure how to do all this, please post again.
Regards
Graham Buckell
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I believe this is what you are talking about:
This is being shown in this way because (as illustrated) there are currently two children shown under Mabel Sophia Dodson, with no father added. If these are also children of Frederick Edward Gray, you should use the "Add Child" feature to add them to the other three children who are already correctly positioned under both parents. One at a time, copy their ID reference and (when you have selected "Add Child") add each (Elsie and Montague) by clicking on "By ID Number" and inserting / pasting their respective IDs. Once they appear under both parents (as Ada, Albert & Edward already do), you can delete them from the relationship just with their mother, as shown.
Use the "Add Child" function to add Elsie & Montague to be shown as children of both parents:
Now Remove Elsie (then Montague) from a "lone" relationship with their mother (using the "Remove of Replace Child" link. They will then both just appear (along with their siblings) under both parents.
Seems a long-winded process, but necessary to deal with the "Unknown" problem - which (confusingly shown on the Landscape view) is meant to indicate not Frederick, but Mabel, apparently had an unknown spouse.
Of course, if for any reason you have doubts that Frederick was the father of Elsie and Montague, you should leave things as they are.
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Please note, I gave advice on this problem that was totally inappropriate in relation to the actual circumstances, so have deleted my comments. Please follow Graham's advice to resolve the issue.
It is confusing when you view this from the Landscape view (as illustrated in screenshot), as it appears to suggest that Frederick had an unknown spouse, whereas (due to the way Elsie & Montague are currently shown on the incorrect mother's Person page) it is Mabel who is being shown as the person with an unknown spouse. The general issue (of who had the unknown spouse) has confused many users (including me!) over the years. Although the actual issue here has arisen because of an error, the Landscape view does not clearly illustrate the "Unknown Spouse" issue in general.
As Graham says, merge these two children with those with different IDs (shown under Frederick & Eva Wills). Once this has been done, the IDs shown under Mabel (for Elsie & Montague) will disappear, as should the problem being reported.
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Please ignore the earlier of my posts, which I intended to delete as I had misunderstood the circumstances - which Graham had already explained.
Unfortunately, screenshots are not "sticking" after being uploaded today. I will try again later.
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Here's another attempt at uploading screenshots that I was not able to post above:
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Graham: Thankyou for taking the up your valuable time with your reply to my enquiry.
This is the FIRST TIME I have used the FamilySearch Bulletin Board and also the first time I have seen a Bulletin Board formatted in this style and would ask:
Is it possible to prepare a single message and address it to several addressees, and if so what is the address protocol?
I am currently spending an inordinate amount of time searching for a path to the British Isles forum of the bulletin board, I am now using a preformatted URL address to reach this page, surely there must be a better way of reaching this page.
Is it possible to jump (short cut) to the British Isles forum of the bulletin board, from the FamilySearch Home Page?
Whilst commenting on unexpected situations, I was taken aback by being asked to sign into FS a second time when I reached this page, but now I’m aware, I’ll expect it next time I come here, my ‘Learning Curve’ continues.
In my opening Post I commented .. .. .. ..
“This second husband does not and never did exist, he needs to be removed from the system, but the last time I attempted to remove someone from the system I finished up in bigger muddle than if I'd let them stand as unknown.” .. .. ..
I have indeed created a bigger muddle than if I'd just left the unknown spouse to live out his existence in quiet isolation.
It is clear that my opening post was worded with insufficient clarity. I tend to rely on and fall back to “Tree View” when working with FS and now realise the Unknown Spouse does not become apparent until the “Tree View” shows Frederick with his first wife Mabel Sophia and with a downward pointing chevron alongside Frederick’s name.
For Paul W.
I likewise thank you for taking the up your valuable time with your reply to my enquiry, you have clearly spent considerable time on your reply, but I cannot fathom out what you’re telling me to do, please understand the problem is at my end NOT at your end.
It appears to me that when viewed from the “Family Members” Box of Fredericks ‘Personal’ view, that following the untimely death of Mabel Sophia Dodson he has married Eva Willis where their combined offspring are hidden behind a downward pointing chevron.
I shall be content to leave things as they are.
I thank you both for your help and not least your valuable time.
Stay Safe, JohnG_Swansea.
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@Paul W
Paul: Thankyou for taking the up your valuable time with your reply to my enquiry.
As commented to Graham above, this is the FIRST TIME I have used the FamilySearch Bulletin Board and also the first time I have seen a Bulletin Board formatted in this style and would ask:
Is it possible to prepare a single message and address it to several addressees, and if so what is the address protocol?
I am currently spending an inordinate amount of time searching for a path to the British Isles forum of the bulletin board, I am now using a preformatted URL address to reach this page, surely there must be a better way of reaching this page.
Is it possible to jump (short cut) to the British Isles forum of the bulletin board, from the FamilySearch Home Page?
Whilst commenting on unexpected situations, I was taken aback by being asked to sign into FS a second time when I reached this page, but now I’m aware, I’ll expect it next time I come here, my ‘Learning Curve’ continues.
In my opening Post I commented .. .. .. ..
“This second husband does not and never did exist, he needs to be removed from the system, but the last time I attempted to remove someone from the system I finished up in bigger muddle than if I'd let them stand as unknown.” .. .. ..
I have indeed created a bigger muddle than if I'd just left the unknown spouse to live out his existence in quiet isolation.
It is clear that my opening post was worded with insufficient clarity. I tend to rely on and fall back to “Tree View” when working with FS and now realise the Unknown Spouse does not become apparent until the “Tree View” shows Frederick with his first wife Mabel Sophia and with a downward pointing chevron alongside Frederick’s name.
For Paul W.
I likewise thank you for taking the up your valuable time with your reply to my enquiry, you have clearly spent considerable time on your reply, but I cannot fathom out what you’re telling me to do, please understand the problem is at my end NOT at your end.
It appears to me that when viewed from the “Family Members” Box of Fredericks ‘Personal’ view, that following the untimely death of Mabel Sophia Dodson he has married Eva Willis where their combined offspring are hidden behind a downward pointing chevron.
I shall be content to leave things as they are.
I thank you both for your help and not least your valuable time.
Stay Safe, JohnG_Swansea.
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“Is it possible to prepare a single message and address it to several addressees, and if so what is the address protocol?”
Not sure quite what you have in mind. If you want to send a message to several people, the system is similar to that for email. Click the envelope near the top right hand corner. This lists your messages. Click the icon in the top right hand corner for a new message. You can then enter multiple recipients.
However, I see that your two discussion posts are substantially the same so perhaps this is what you were thinking of. If so, the single post to the discussion is sufficient. Both Paul and I will see it. We will both be notified as previous contributors to the discussion. Another way to draw our attention is to do as you did by @mention our names. Both names can be put into a single post.
“Is it possible to jump (short cut) to the British Isles forum of the bulletin board, from the FamilySearch Home Page?”
Personally I have created a short cut to the British Isles group in my browser bookmarks.
https://community.familysearch.org/en/group/16-british-isles-family-history-research
This was particularly useful the other day when there was a problem with the Community home page but I was still able to get into this group via my bookmark.
Alternatively, if you start at the FamilySearch home page, click Help (the ? in a circle icon near the top right) and then click Community (near the bottom on the right). This takes you to the Community Home Page. From there you can click My Groups in the Quick Links section on the right and then click the British Isles group. Much quicker to use a bookmark!
“Whilst commenting on unexpected situations, I was taken aback by being asked to sign into FS a second time when I reached this page, but now I’m aware, I’ll expect it next time I come here, my ‘Learning Curve’ continues.”
I too have to sign into FS multiple times each day. Not sure why this is the case. I suspect it is caused by going into Community. Others have commented on this. Hopefully it will be corrected in due course but I imagine this is not high on the priority list.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Graham
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@PaulW
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I too have to sign into FS multiple times each day. Not sure why this is the case. I suspect it is caused by going into Community. Others have commented on this. Hopefully it will be corrected in due course but I imagine this is not high on the priority list."
End of Quote
Golly, Gosh; got it wrong again!!
As commented a while back this is the first time I’ve used the FamilySearch, Bulletin Board and I’m still on my ‘Learning Curve’, I’ll go back and look for my original draft and sort out why it was chopped in half:
Resend of completed message:
My Guess is that there is an 'Inactivity Timer' in the background which forces a Log-Out after a specified number of minutes, and I don't have a problem with that, and as such I've never bothered to work out how many minutes it may be set at.
But, I was surprised that within less than two minutes of logging-in to the FS Home Page, I was asked to sign in again.
Having said that and in dread of making an even bigger mess, I have chosen to leave things as they are; who knows, someone more self-assured and more skilful than I may even take on the challenge.
Thank you both again.
JohnG_Swansea
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John
I don't think it is an inactivity timer. I have found that I can log into FS, exit, then go back in some time later without needing to log in again provided I have not gone into Community in the meantime. On the other hand, I have noticed that, if I am working in Community, then go to FS to help answer a question, exit FS while continuing to operate in Community, and later, even a few minutes later, try to re-enter FS, I need to log in again.
Regards
Graham
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One of you has offered to "Talk me through" a process which would end -up by deleting the un-known/ un-named second husband of Mabel Sophia Dodson (LHSX-2W9).
I can no longer find that message.
However I recall it involved Deleting by Merging the spurious (duplicated/ ghost) off-spring of Mabel Sophia Dodson(LHSX-2W9) and her non-existent and un-identified Second Husband, being: Elsie Evelyn Gray(LY67-Z6N) and Montague Lionel F. Gray(LY67-FG9), with the genuine(real) off-spring of Frederick Edward Gray(9WYJ-Q2T) and his second wife Eva Willis(G41P-W76), being Elsie Evelyn Gray(G415-LKW) and Montague Lionel F. Gray(LKV7-N94)
An interesting observation/ question: "How come the FS system is content to promote the existence/ birth of two children some years after the death of the identified mother?" (see image below)
Having asked the above question the situation still exists that the FS system currently fails to recognise the two spurious children as duplicates of the genuine children, and the system is not offering me a merge facility, nor can I find a path to the merge facility.
With all of the above in mind, surely the safest path would be to escalate the deletion of this un-identified second husband of the by now deceased wife, and also to delete the spurious children, to the FamilySearch IT team.
Regards, JohnG_Swansea
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It was me that offered to take you through the process in a private message (click the envelope near the top right).
I think you accord too much to the power of the FamilySearch system. It cannot police everything. Much is down to individual users and unfortunately many (and I mean many) errors are made - some more ridiculous than others (children born before parents comes to mind).
As I explained in my original post, the process to correct the position is doable (like most things in life - easy when you know how!!). There is no need to escalate to the IT team.
Regards
Graham
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I have gone back to your original replies, re-read them both a couple of times and, thinking that I understood your guidance, proceeded with my understanding of your guidance.
The Up-side Result:
The husband of unknown name who married Mabel Sophia Dodson after her death appears to have been removed from the system.
The Down-side Result:
The union between Frederick Edward Gray and Eva Willis (the second wife) is now showing their two off-spring, twice on Frederick’s ‘Personal View’ page, albeit with four separate 4+3 identities {genuine: G415-LKW & LKV7-N94}, {phantom/ghost LY67-Z6N & LY67-FG9}
However, when I started to use the same system that I had used some minutes earlier, I quickly realised that the options being offered didn’t seem to be appropriate for resolving the newly perceived problem.
So, whilst thanking you for the progress so far, I’m now looking for further help to remove the spurious/ duplicated children.
JohnG_Swansea
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Looks like you have done a great job so far - just need to finish it! My original post only mentioned the need to merge the duplicate children without going into details.
Detailed instructions can be found at
I would add that the instructions suggest first clicking on Possible Duplicates. This works for Elsie but not for Montague. There are two ways around this. First is to click Find Similar People immediately below Possible Duplicates. Montague Gray is listed here and you can select him.
The second way is to Merge By ID (immediately below Find Similar People. The way to do this is to copy Montague Gray's ID LY67-FG9 and then click on Merge By ID when on the page of Montague Lionel as above. You can then enter the ID of the second Montague. I tend to use this method when Possible Duplicates does not give a result and I know the ID as Find Similar People does not always give the result you are looking for.
Not far to go!
Regards
Graham
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Okay, Yippie I Aye
Completed the task, a big thank you for your perseverance and quiet diplomacy, that's one down with the decks cleared for one that tripped me up a few days ago.
JohnG_Swansea
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