Would there be any additional documents other than this will?

AnneLoForteWillson

Gggg-grandfather's will is located in Diocese of Chester Consistory court probated in 1834. This set of records has only the will for him. IF I understand the will correctly, he sets up his bequests as trusts, where his executors manage his several properties and pay the annual rents and income to his children. Would there be any other record sets that might include an inventory or administrators' accounts for the probate?

Also, when would his trusts be overridden and the properties be outright given to the descendants? For example, one son is given the rents of his apothecary shop, next-door paint & varnish manufactory and the attached dwelling house as well as the outright ownership of all the paraphernalia to run these businesses. In 1875 this same son instructs all of his property to be sold and the money split into three trust funds. This apothecary shop building is apparently sold at that time. How would I find out when the property was actually transferred into the son's possession? All of this occurs in Liverpool.

Graham Buckell

Anne

I do not pretend to be an expert on 19th century trust law but am familiar with the rules that apply today and I suspect that they have not changed radically over the years. For example some of the provisions of the Trustee Act 1925 remain in force today

This is termed a will trust and is quite common even today. This appoints trustees (who, as in your case, may be the same as the executors of the will) to look after the assets and deal with them as directed by the terms of the trust. The trustees would have been required to maintain records of their dealings with the trust assets. Commonly professionals such as solicitors or accountants are employed to deal with the administration. Often, particularly with more substantial trusts, annual accounts are prepared. However, such records are private and, in all probability, have been destroyed long since even if prepared by professionals.

As mentioned, the powers of the trustees are determined by the terms of the will. Often this gives flexibility to the trustees to take action as they see fit within certain constraints. A common clause is to provide income to beneficiaries for a given period, typically until they reach an age such as 25, then distribute assets outright (or sell and distribute proceeds) thereby bringing the trust to an end.

As in your case, the creation of new trusts out of an old trust is not unusual. The terms of such trusts are likely to be contained in a new trust deed separate from the original will. I found such a document for one of my ancestors in the possession of one of my family members. This quoted extensively from the original will trust which I found very useful at the time as old wills from the probate office were not then so readily available as they are today.

Land registry titles only go back 30 years. Again very old records may be held privately but the chances of finding such, if they exist at all, are remote. You could try the land registry office in Liverpool but your chances of success must be slim indeed.

Sorry to be rather negative!

Regards

Graham Buckell

AnneLoForteWillson

So, unless our family happened to have kept the records, there isn't likely to be further records. Darn, I was afraid of that. Is there a possibility that the 1875 sale of the apothecary shop might have mentioned where the property came from ie. father's will?

Graham Buckell

Correct.

There is always a chance that the property may have been mentioned in an earlier will. Owning property as a source of a steady income was common in those days as was passing such property down generations.

AnneLoForteWillson

Right, it was the address of this apothecary shop that my great-grandfather passed on to his descendants that helped us locate the right family in Liverpool. Tracing that property led us to an estate named Smethurst Hall, between Bury and Rochdale that had been owned by the family for a few generations. So I get what you say about the wills and income.

I'm curious about the 30 years of land registry titles. We have land deeds going back into colonial times (1600s) here in the United States. What changed in England that made only the last 30 years or so be recorded by the government? Why has it only been the last 30 years?

Graham Buckell

I have less expertise on property law than trust law! In England and Wales generally, Compulsory registration of title only started in 1990 although properties were registered voluntarily prior to that date. Otherwise one had to rely on written title deeds. Such title deeds were held privately. As part of the registration process, deeds were deposited at Land Registry Offices. These deeds may contain information going back a varying number of years. I am not sure how long. The 30 year limit I mentioned is how far back the Land Registry will hold evidence of title.