Nicholas Bertamus FamilySearch Request

Adrien Kintziger

And the reply from Luxemburg's public library...

Dear Adrie Kintziger, 

Thank you for your prompt reply. 

Unfortunately, this region does not belong anymore to the neighboring region of Luxembourg called "Grande Région" (Wallonie, Lorraine et Rhénanie-Palatinat). 

For that reason, unfortunately, it is not possible to have access to the online content of the National Library of Luxembourg (BnL). 

For further information about the online offer of the BnL , do not hesitate to contact us: consortium@bnl.etat.lu 

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Mat beschte Gréiss – Meilleures salutations – Mit freundlichen Grüßen – Kind regards

Bibliothèque nationale du Luxembourg

Marc Huberty

Services au public

37D, Avenue John F. Kennedy, L-1855 Luxembourg 

Tél.: (+352) 26 55 9-101

JoanCuster

Thanks. I saw your message. I just now realized that there is a separate message box.

I will bre researching today.

Adrien Kintziger

Also as an aside, an article in a newspaper about the La Gascogne, wit the price of the transit in 1887; wine included. second caption that says "shipping"

https://gahistoricnewspapers.galileo.usg.edu/lccn/sn86063034/1887-10-17/ed-1/seq-6/

JoanCuster

Interesting. Especially from a newspaper in Georgia

I think Nicolas traveled her in Steerage. Looks like for around $25? I had heard some passengers had to bring their own food on these trips.

Thanks.

Adrien Kintziger

Yes, it was not uncommon to bring own food.Poverty was a keyword in those days. Scrolling in the manifests of La Gascogne, some days ago , another Bertemes appeared traveling from Norway to Wisconsin,so that indicates that the name was present in Norway also;not really worth offering,but as an aside, he is on line 15 of this page.I call these asides critters.But they do help to get cases like this to grow in your skills.

https://stevemorse.org/ellis2/mmminus.html?back=https%3A%2F%2Fstevemorse.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fboat.php%3Fseries%3D%26rollStart%3D%26rollEnd%3D%26volumeStart%3D%26volumeEnd%3D%26monthStart%3D%26dayStart%3D%26yearStart%3D%26monthEnd%3D%26dayEnd%3D%26yearEnd%3D%26boatkind%3Dstarts%26boat%3Dla%2Bgascogne%26offset%3D1%26portkind%3Dstarts%26port%3D%26pageSize%3D50%26database%3Dall%26local%3Dyes%26auth%3D&series=0&roll=564&frame=443&display=true

JoanCuster

I have seen some other Bertemes referenced in Minnesota and other parts of Iowa.

I have not yet connected them to the Nicholas/Michel Bertemes line yet.

Adrien Kintziger

To keep you motivated, i stumbled upon another critter. As you mentioned your town,..

I live in' Roger Coolstraat 12 Zelzate, we have google streetview, it's the house with the twisted tree, altough the cars are different now.

https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuwsfoto%27s/saloon-of-the-first-of-the-steamer-la-gascogne-of-the-nieuwsfotos/56212929

JoanCuster

Quite the dining room on the ship.

If I have the correct google view, it looks like your home is what we call a duplex or twin home here - sharing one wall with a neighbor.

I do like the trees.

Adrien Kintziger

Yes, its a duplex, build new some 16 years ago; the tree wit the swirl is dead now.

Also , my request from the library came back as "not availiable" as well from my library and also from the university Ghent library.So i left it for now.

Adrien Kintziger

Okay, let us keep the thread alive.

I found Eva, and the family of that moment,The snapshot from the census(volkstelling) is from 1867, that is as close as it gets to Eva's birth.It is from Troisvierges.Eva was a baby still,..and Maria Metz alive, occupation for Michel, Ouvrier (helper)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L971-4791?i=197&cc=2037957&cat=1353390

The second link, takes a jump in location and other household , and time forked between 1871 and etc,'in the header)-, Naming and showing only Michel as to live and reside with another family.So in 1871 , and after the death of Maria/Elisabeth,...the children already were not in his care anymore.It is him for sure, the date fits his birth,the location is Basbellain/Troivierges. There is one or two remarks on it to be offered in the German room,as i cannot read it,and it would be important. The first would be in column 3 'Stelling in der haushalt'(position in the household), the second column 7 "familienstand" (related-non related)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G971-49C2-N?i=565&cc=2037957&cat=1353390

JoanCuster

Thanks Adrie,

I will capture both images and links and request a translation.

It is sad to think my grandfather was not able to stay with his dad. I am learning so much more about his life.

One other question. Is it custom that woman always use their birth names in records, even when married.

I wish we used that here in the U.S.

JoanCuster

I think I just found Henri and Nicolas in an 1875 Census record (in the Ulflingen section)

I was trying to see what happened to Michel's 2nd wife, Maria Katharina Kremer and their daugher Barbara. I did not see them.

Luxembourg Census Records, 1843-1900 Basbellain 1875

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G971-68ZB?i=497&wc=M5G9-44C%3A346197101%2C345870501&cc=2037957

(You may have to copy and paste the link).

More research to find Eva. Were there orphanages where she might have been placed?

Thanks..

JoanCuster

This was the translation on the Michel Bertemes Census record:

"yes, the last line is for Michel Bertemes. The entry in column 3 is "Vater in Rost.?" = father in Rost.? I am not fully sure that the last (abbreviated) word reads Rost. and I don't know what it means. The entry in column 7 is "Wittwer" = widower. Note that this word has a curl at its end like many other other words and names in this table; they do not signify a letter."

Not sure if this means anything to you.

Adrien Kintziger

The problem is solved , in the German room, altough it was not obvious. The term is "Kostganger"; meaning "boarder" , so "rost" was kost and it was an abbrevation.i found back the full term in the catalogue and offered it to Ulrich, and he recognised the term - also, here is no need to copy/paste between the German end Belgium-:Lux room , i'm also a member,and often i read along most threads,yesterday specifically as i expected the question.Normally these messages all appear in my mailboxes, but for days now , i have difficulties receiving many mails,not only from this site.if the problem keep persisting,i will switch to another e-mail adress,will tell you in advance if i do that.

Yes, well , yesterday i suspected that you were searching in 1875 and Basbellain,and also that it would have at least some yield. I will try to check it out right now , with my coffee.

Before i forget,In the German room, as you will read , Ulrich mentioned the absence of the children/obviously in someones care,...so maybe, just maybe it would be interesting to attach Elisabeths deatcertif and that of the Mother to that thread,to have translations of them.Give some likes to Ulrich,he is very polite and helpfull.

Adrien Kintziger

Perfect , checked the link 1875/ Basbellain and the term is also there, "Zu Kost" =the abbrevation of " to Be Boarder" in the 3th column, so in 1875 they were still in the care of a family without Eva--hm,...the orphanage question; if so, all information is cloacked,disguised,sealed,burnt,or forever in the vaults of the state.No way around that corner,...

JoanCuster

I will send the death records next week, when Ulrich returns. Hopefully, there may be something in the record.

I believe I also have Michel Bertemes record.

Would witnesses at Baptisms typically be friends or relatives of the family?

Adrien Kintziger

Okay, yes , to your last question,mostly they are, typically as you say relatives or friends, but not always. Other witnesses are allowed. I searched back for the family Michel was taken in, the family lux Adam,but the sheet had no further information of any kind , so i dropped it.

I think it was in either Heinrichs or Eva's baptism that one of the witnesses was Barbara Bertemes from Binsfeld.Difficult to find back in the books.Difficult hamlet.

The above posting did not make it into my mailbox, also, did you check your message box to see of any of my last mails there is left unanswered, or was not sent?

JoanCuster

Yes, I have been receiving emails for everything you post or message.

Adrien Kintziger

Puzzling, maybe something to do with famsearch itself.

JoanCuster

I was doing some more research on Luxenbourg to help me visualize where my Luxembourg relarives (Bertemes, Schwebach and Ludowese (many different spellings) and came across this link: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/List_of_communes_of_Luxembourg

I am assuming Ulflingen no longer exists, but was in Troisvierges? Correct?

Also, how much did people travel thtoughout the country? Or, did most stay in the same location?

Were there more wealthier areas? Trying to get a sense of what live was like in the 1700-1800's.

Any recommendations for books/links to read?

Thanks.

Adrien Kintziger

Joan, we will go into this tomorrow,have to go now, "Ulflingen" =Troisvierges, the naming is trilingual."Elwen(luxembourgisch)", 'Ulflingen,' (German name) , Troisvierges( French naming) but many of these old cores still exist, like say Basbellain, dissolved into Troisvierges, and still exist today as hamlet with their old naming.Interesting to observe, in satellite view , is how small Basbellain really is.Try it once..

I do not receive notifications from this box anymore,very strange,probably i will change my account in 2 months or so.

Adrien Kintziger

Back in those days,travelling as a concept did not exist for poor people,altough travelling to follow seasonal labour,crops and opportunities was common.The distances , however,were not in any way of the magnitude that is common today.People went to the Walloon Ardennes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardennes)to harvest tobacco,work in the coalmines and steelindustry as well as they went to Germany to the Ruhr area , a place attracting Belgians and Luxemburgers, as well as Dutch people.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr

JoanCuster

Thanks Adrie for providing the links and "education".

As always, I am saving all the links you provide as well.

JoanCuster

I have found a few Bertemes records in the Midwest, close to where Nicholas Bertemes lived.

So, I tried to see if Nicholas's father may have had a sibling, and one of their children may have come to the U.S.

Nicholas' father was Michel Bertemes (born 20 Jan 1837 Asselborn, Asselborn, Clerf, Diekirch, Luxemburg) and he died in 1874.

I show Michel's parents as: Johann Bertemes (B:29 Jan 1798 Asselborn, Asselborn, Clerf, Diekirch, Luxemburg) and Gertrude Heinen (B:23 May 1801 Weiswampach, Clervaux, Diekirch, Luxembourg).

There is a Philip Bertemes (born 3 June 1839 Asselborn, Luxembourg) who has parents listed in a FamilySearch death record as Michael Bertemes and Getrude Heinen. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MZ-NXJJ

The father's name is different but the mother's names are very close. Is there another source to check on the father names and see if Michel Bertemes and Philp Bertemes are related?

Thanks.

Adrien Kintziger

Some of the sources in this link are very unreliable , and Gertrude is mentioned as daughter of Michael,not his wife, wife is Mary; other sources attached are most certainly wrong.The only way of checking is in the catalogue about Asselborn,on that date , to find out if his parents are Gertrude and ...

I have to admit,i find it rather strange , not to find siblings at Deltgen, as well for Michel as for Gertrud.

And it would be very interesting to have just that,...

JoanCuster

I agree. Since we find other Bertemes in the area.

Thanks again for your help.