I am looking for my great grandfather John William Beacham ,on his Army papers it states he is 18 ye
On his second marriage in 1915 it states father Henry Arnold .Giving these details to the gro for a birth certificate they do not have one for him a Thank you Doreen Beacham Powell.
Respostas
-
More information would be helpful. Do you know the date of his first marriage and the wife's name, and the second wife's name? I did find two birth registrations for John William Beacham, but they're both in London, one in 1865 and the other in 1867.
0 -
His first marriage was to Sarah Ann Fisher in Erdington in 1887 she passed away 1914 and he remarried in 1915 in Aston Birmingham to a Ellen Smith she is only about 22 and her father is James Smith .They have at least 2 children, one being Violet Beacham. I have been trying to find my great grand mother for about 20 years some put Mary Caroline Wheeler others have put Thirza Curtis and Harriet Forman. Thank you for your help Regards Doreen Beacham Powell.
0 -
Great! I guessed correctly. I found the marriage registration for John and Sarah in Apr-May-Jun quarter of 1887. I also found marriage record for he and Ellen and the christening records of several children of John William Beacham and Ellen (one of which is Violet). I discovered that you have put John in Family Tree. I would like to do some editing (i.e. merge Miss Sarah Ann Fisher and Sarah Ann Fisher), add Ellen and the children, and attach these records, but I wanted to get your permission before I do this.
0 -
Yes that would be great if you could please.There is also several children with Sarah Ann Fisher I know of Charles Thomas George Enoch my grandfather Laura Lily and Annie
0 -
If his second marriage states that his father is "Henry Arnold", rather than "Henry Beacham" and you can't find his birth registration then you need to consider that he might have been illegitimate and his birth registration indexed under "Arnold". Although I'm not sure that is necessarily the order I'd expect to see the names in!
Logically he should appear in the 1871 and 1881 censuses but not the 1891 because he was abroad in the Army at that point. He's in the 1901 and 1911, as you probably know. I'd try to see if I could find him in the 1871 and 1881 under either surname.
0 -
Thank you that would be great if you could . On his army records which I have his father Henry is living in 1884 in 1Cottage Lane Shottery Stratford Upon Avon ,I have been there and also been in touch with the history centre but they have not come back to me .one of John William’s grandchildren told me that her mother did visit there hope this helps Doreen
0 -
Also on his army records it states he was born in Kingham Chipping Norton
0 -
The marriage record has John William's father as Henry Arnold Beacham, not just Henry Arnold. @Adrian Bruce1 if you could attach those census records to John William (G9Q4-ML3) and Henry Arnold Beacham (KHVD-XMS) that would be very helpful.
0 -
I have only found John William Beacham in 1901 where he is living in Short Heath Lane Erdington and again 1911 . His marriage to Sarah Ann Fisher states father Henry Beacham a Labourer and in 1915 his marriage states father Henry Arnold Beacham a Labourer, But I have looked for a Henry Arnold thinking that a second name may help but have not found anything so far .
0 -
Do you know if any of the children of John William and Sarah Ann are still living?
0 -
Unfortunately none of John William Beacham’s children are still living
0 -
-
Unfortunately there are a lot of Henry Beacham’s in Kingham and Somerset .There is a John William Beacham born in 1867 in Axbridge Somerset perhaps he was baptised there but born in Kingham .I can only go on his army records of 6825 .So perhaps when the history centre in Stratford upon Avon is open I can go and see who was living at the address given on his records .I have done my dna and have been in contact with One of a John William’s daughters grandson . I have been researching my great grandfather for about 20 years , but as my grandfather would have nothing to do with his father because he did not look after them when their mother died he would not let his 11 children visit him so they know nothing about him .Thank you very much for your help Doreen Beacham Powell.
0 -
I've attached the 1901 and 1911 to JWB - can't find any earlier ones. He won't be in the 1891. I can't see him in the 1871 and 1881.
0 -
Thank you .
0 -
That's very sad about your grandfather's relationship with his father! What @Adrian Bruce1 says about Henry Beacham in Somerset makes sense. I was wondering about that, too. I will keep working on this and keep you informed on what I find.
0 -
Thank you.
0 -
I have just been working on (Somerset) Henry Beacham KHVD-XMS - fortunately his wife was Thirza so can be tracked more easily! Henry died 5 Nov 1875 - this is in the Probate Calendar so it's pretty hard evidence - so that Henry could not have been quoted as John's next of kin when John joined the Army in 1884. I have therefore removed Somerset Henry from our John....
0 -
A search in the GRO Index offers this information:
Name: BEACHAM, JOHN WILLIAM, GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 40
Mother's Maiden Surname: WHITEHOUSE
0 -
It's often possible to do the next step and look in FreeBMD to see if the marriage can be found. In this case a search in FreeBMD for a marriage btw BEACHAM (note I didn't check spelling variants) and WHITEHOUSE btw 1840 and 1865 brings up just one:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1858 (>99%)
Beacham George Dudley 6c 47
Expanding that page brings us to
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1858 (>99%)
Beacham George Dudley 6c47
Jones Emma Dudley 6c47
POOLER James Dudley 6c47
WHITEHOUSE Lucy Dudley 6c47
Since this marriage is in the Dudley Registration District, as is the birth, it would seem very likely indeed that the John William Beacham born in 1863 was born to George Beacham and Lucy nee Whitehouse.
0 -
Searching for any male born in Kingham, Chipping Norton registration district, by the first name of John, gives no such last name. If he was truly his correct age when he joined ( many gave false information to be able to join), he should have been registered in either Dec 1865 or Mar 1866. The number you gave, however, shows up in the Chelsea Pensioner Soldier Service as him having been 15 when he joined, which would give a different birth year. A closer reading of the attestation papers shows that it says 15 years 6 months. Searching for 1869 to 1872 gives nothing for a birth record. The first one is William John Beacham in 1875. That William John is born of a mother by the maiden name of Collett. If he is the one, then a lot of fudging of age has taken place.
In 1881 there is a grandson Henry John Beecham living with the Collett family in Kingham, also born in 1876 in Kingham. There is however, no such birth listed for that name. So did William John turn to Henry John for a while, then to John William?
There is a Henry John Beacham that married in 1874 in Chipping Norton. The spouse is not listed. The marriage record could be sent for to see if he married a Collett.
John William is only listed as John Beecham in the military papers.
Then I searched for any Beachams living in Kingham village in 1871. Ann Beacham a widow and and her daughter Fanny are the only ones coming up. Fanny, in 1881 is living with relatives.
Searching Stratford on Avon for any Beachams does not give a father.
- Maybe a broader search for other Beacham or Beechams could be made in the area and followed forward.
Good luck.
0 -
" The number you gave, however, shows up in the Chelsea Pensioner Soldier Service as him having been 15 when he joined, which would give a different birth year."
Carole - that's exactly what I thought when I first looked. However, on reflection I realised that it really is 18 years and 6 months:-
1) There's a pencilled calculation at the bottom right hand of the first page of the Attestation which subtracts his age from the attestation date - that subtracts 18y, so clearly someone else in the Army thought it meant 18y.
2) The number "6825" inked in at the top shows a "5" where the top 2 parts are straight lines - he's even lifted his pen to draw the very top bar of the "5". The age shows a "5" or "8" which is drawn without lifting his pen and it's continually curved. That's much more like the "8" in "6825" at the top which is drawn continually curved - and the curves don't quite join. The "5" or "8" in the age is an extreme example of the curves not joining.
3) On page 2 of the Attestation form, I can see his age again (18y 6m) and his height. Fortunately, his height is 5ft 3 1/2 inches and we can see that the form of the 5 in his height (and his chest) is quite different from the dubious figure in his age. Which is a bit clearer on this page.
Taking it altogther, I have to conclude that his age really was 18y 6m. But I really would say that it took me some time to work it out and - like you - my initial reaction was that he was 15y 6m.
I would agree with the rest of your analysis. I looked at the other Kingham Beechams (and variants) but saw no way to bring JWB into those families. My suspicion is that he's illegitimate and his registration has been indexed under his mother's name. He's then taken on his father's surname - maybe - or maybe he's been adopted by someone and taken their name, or maybe it's his step-father's surname. The possibilities are, unfortunately, many.
0 -
You are right.
So, using FreeBMD and not typing in a name, but searching for all births in Chipping Norton for the 1-2 years in question, if he was born in late 1865 or early 1866, you have two lists of names. Print out list and cross off all females.
The next daunting task would be to follow each male birth forward, did they die young, were they illegitimate etc.
Hopefully the birth was registered.
Then see if an 1881 census can be found.
I will say that I have searched for a similar situation for some time and have not yet found the birth or the place of residence that was listed in the military papers for the father.
I tried to search the 1881 residence to see if a father could be found in Shottery, but after a few hundred individuals searched in that census, starting from the beginning of the alphabet through the first part of the b, I have yet to find anyone listed as living in Shottery. Maybe the 1891 would be better.
0 -
Checked all of Shottery for 1881, but no luck. If he is illegitimate. it would be unusual for him to know his father, right?
0 -
No, all possible variations apply from one night stands (where he is unlikely perhaps to know his father) to longer term relationships where the father lived with them but simply never married his mother.
0 -
That would be great if you could,thank you for your help
0 -
Hello I wonder if my grandfather was named after one of his family as his second name is Enoch which is unusual at that time ,so I am now looking at all the Enoch Beacham’s in the 1800’s as my grandfather was born about 1902
0 -
Thank you for your reply .I have been along with many others searching for my great grandfather for about 20 years and he is a mystery as no one seems to to able to to find anything .Having done my dna several people have messaged me with the Beacham name and the though lines on ancestry a Francis Beacham seems to crop up ,so I am still searching
0 -
Thank you ,but on his army papers 6825 he was born in Kingham chipping Norton
0 -
After All these years of searching I am no further forward ,having his army records I have his first and second marriage and his death record and his cemetery record and visited his grave .I have done my dna .This is such a mystery
0