Translation Request
Thank you for translating the attached German marriage record for Maria Hemmer. The translation of the entire record will be of great help to me in my research.
My goals is to continue the search for Maria's parents, Johann Hemmer vulgo Hemmerchristi and Anna Blummel, as well as their parents. Is there such a place as Hemmerchristi near Ligist?
I would like confirmation that Johann is of or is known as Hemmerchristi in this record. It distinguishes him from other Johann Hemmer's in Ligist. Were Anna and Johann living at the time of the marriage? I am having trouble finding any information about Anna Blumlin or also spelled as Blummel. Is there any information about where she is from?
So many questions!
Appreciatively,
Tammi (Hemmer) Snyder
Comentários
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I'm afraid that that image file may as well be just a thumbnail. There's barely enough image resolution to read that yes, it's a marriage register page.
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Thank you for trying to open it. I took a snip (JPEG) of the marriage register page (PNG file). Let's see if that works! If not, perhaps I can email it to you?
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Same problem. It's not the image type (png versus jpg) that's the problem, it's the resolution: the number of pixels. There simply aren't enough of them.
What would help is a link to the record on the website where you found it, if it's not paywalled.
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I am not sure you will be able to access with an Ancestry link. In the meantime, I will try to find Maria Hemmer on Family Search.
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Yeah, unfortunately, Ancestry has dumbed down that share link to unusability.
It does indicate that this is a Roman Catholic register-page from Styria, and you said Ligist, so I checked that on Matricula-Online (https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/?page=1), but no luck: the marriage register there for 1845-1885 has three entries per page, not two like in your thumbnails. So either the record from Ancestry is not actually Ligist, or they're lying about the denomination in the browser tab text (the only place where the record source/type is identified).
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Here's a link to the marriage: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/oesterreich/graz-seckau/st-johann-ob-hohenburg/9647/?pg=35
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Thanks, Christopher!
Here's what I believe it says about the bride:
Hemmer Maria, showed baptismal register extract from parish of Ligist from 4 February 1850 [presumably the date of the extract/certificate], legitimate daughter of Johann Hemmer, commonly called Hemmerchristi, farmer in Oberwald house number 41, deceased, and his still-living wife Anna, born Blümlin. [Can't quite figure out the next bit; something in the parish of Ligist.] Was born on 27 December 1828.
Here's the baptismal entry: https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9236/?pg=218. The image quality is just that little bit less than what my not-so-good-at-this eyes/brain need, but it definitely has the Latin word vulgo "commonly, generally, in the common tongue" in the father's name. (Problem is, it looks to me like it says "Hemmer" on both sides of it.)
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The last bit on the marriage record is "Currently located in service at the Gasslmühle in the parish of Ligist. Is born on 27 October 1828."
And the priest who recorded the baptism may not have finished Hemmerchristi, but noting that there is an alternate surname with "vulgo" makes this match up well.
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This is absolutely thrilling to me! Thank you so much, Suzi, Christopher and Julia. I need to learn how to use Matricula Online. But still .... I can't read the German language.
Can any of you translate Maria's husband's name? That will help me find her death record.
From your last comment, Christopher, Jacob was in service at a gasslmuhle. Is this is a sawmill? or lumber mill?
If I can continue to impose on you even further, I believe I found Johann Hemmer / Hemmerchristi's burial record dated September 18, 1840, buried in Ligist, with a birth date of about 1796. His first name is spelled incorrectly as "Joahann."
The english translation doesn't say "Hemmerchristi" but I think I can see it in the register, which means it is my Johann. For further proof, I was hoping the record would nicely state that his wife was Anna Blumlin. She was still living as Anna's marriage record of 1850 states. The record doesn't appear to name her.
Also what was the cause of Johann's death? It looks like the house number is 40. Was he living in Oberwald still?
Lastly, any help on finding Anna Blummel / Blimlin and Johann's marriage would be wonderful? I can't find anything on Ancestry or Family Search. This would lead to finding out more about her and where she came from.
I am so appreciative of your help.
Tammi
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You forgot the link, but I think I found it: https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9275/?pg=193
Died 18th, buried 21st September [I think it gives the time of day, too, but gnngh, this stuff's hard to read]
House number 40.
Johann Hemmer commonly Hemmerchrist, [can't figure out his occupation] in Oberwald, male, Catholic, age 44
The cause of death looks kinda like Gehirnlähmung, but that's usually translated as cerebral palsy or infantile paralysis, i.e. not something an adult man would die of, so either I'm misreading it, or the word had some other meaning in 1840.
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Thank you, Julia! I am sorry I couldn't get you the link. I will do that in the future -- need to learn how! Great to get confirmation of Johann's death. I will see if I can find a translation of the cause of death. Seems like you didn't see anything about his wife Anna Blummel.
Back to Maria Hemmer: If anyone can confirm what Maria's husband's surname is, that will help me find Maria's death record. Here's a link to the marriage: https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/oesterreich/graz-seckau/st-johann-ob-hohenburg/9647/?pg=35
I will try my luck on Matricula to find Johann and Anna Hemmer's marriage. This will lead to finding out more about her and where she came from.
Thank you!
Tammi
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Maria Hemmer's husband is Jacob Starchl. (That part's in normal Latin handwriting, not That Dratted stuff.) His birth/baptism is recorded at the bottom of this page: https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9236/?pg=165.
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Thank you for the surname! I will add him to my tree. Kind of you to include the baptism record, too.
I did research on Matricula and found the right "Fond" Voitsberg, for locating Johann Hemmer commonly know as Hemmerchristi, born about 1796. I was seeking his marriage to Anna Blummel or Blumlin sometime between his supposed marriage age and obviously some years before his death in 1840. Unfortunately, I can't read German, so I can't get to the right page of the book to find his name. If anyone wants to tackle this I would be grateful.
Thank you!
Tammi
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Jacob Starchl's father also has an alternate surname... likely Jacob had one also. I think it's Starchl vulgo Flaschger. Interestingly enough, Martin's wife was also named Maria Hemmer.
Suzi
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Thank you, Suzi! Oh, my gosh, the naming of family makes research so difficult. There are an abundance of Anna's in the Hemmer family. Thank you for weighing in. I so appreciate you all!
Can I graciously ask for help on finding the marriage record of Johann Hemmer commonly known as Hemmerchristi and Anna Blummel / Blumlin's Marriage record? According to his burial record, he was born about 1796 and died in September of 1840 and was buried in Ligist.
I did try to help myself on Matricula, found the right "Fond" Voitsberg, Unfortunately, I can't read German, so I can't get to the right page of the book to find his name. If anyone can help me with this, I would be grateful.
Thank you,
Tammi
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Is this the Hemmer-Blumlin marriage?:https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=53
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You don't really need to read German to use the register indexes and registers on Matricula-Online. You just need to learn how to recognize your names of interest in That Dratted Handwriting. There are various things online to help you with that; try searching the FS Wiki and/or Wikipedia for "Kurrentschrift", for example.
To find Johann Hemmer's marriage, go to the Ligist page and find the marriage index (Trauungsindex) containing most of the likely period (1810s), which is the one for 1788 to 1819. You're mostly interested in the end of that timespan, so I suggest starting at the end of the Hs, which are on page 9 (handily labeled in the right-hand column): https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9266/?pg=9. Scrolling up from the bottom, there are several Hemmers, recognizable from the n-that's-actually-e on either side of the m with a line on top (indicating doubling).
Only one of them is Johann, in 1816, on page 51. (The other Hemmers in the image are Barbara, Theresia, and Jakob.) So go back to the Ligist page and find the marriage register (Trauungsbuch) containing 1816, and go to page 51 in it: https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=53. And yep, that sure as heck looks like the right marriage: the bride is Anna (again with the line above indicating doubling of a letter) Blimmlin (or something like that), with father Thomas Blimmel (I think):
The mom's definitely also Anna, surname maybe Jangin?
The marriage entry explains why the groom was also known as Hemmerchrist: his father's name was Christian Hemmer.
I think his mother was Maria Tauberin.
(You've probably already learned this, but just in case: the -in ending on surnames was a feminine suffix. The usual genealogical practice is to omit it, that is, you'd record the mother of the groom as Maria Tauber, the bride as Anna Blimmel, and her mother as Anna Jang. [Unless you came up with better readings of the names. Don't take my word as Gospel.] As you can see from the index, they were inconsistent in its use by the 1800s: Barbara has it, Theresia doesn't.)
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Wow! Thank you Christopher and Julia for finding Johann's marriage! I am stunned and need to take some time to digest everything and read through how to search on Matricula.
The mystery of Hemmerchristi is solved!!
My Father, Gene Hemmer, is 89 and he will be thrilled to hear this. You have just told me the names of his 5x great grandparents - Christian and Anna. My mom is also 89. Their cognitive skills are still sharp so they love this stuff.
My father's grandfather Antonius Hemmer was illegitimate and so was Antonius's mother, Josefa Hemmer. So we have traveled through a couple generations on the Hemmer name. I have read that it is near impossible to find illegitimate children's fathers. But it might be possible through DNA genealogy. That's way above my head at the moment.
Will be in touch!
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Hello,
Has anyone done immigration or Passport research?
Here is some background: My step ancestor, Blasius Salzer, and his first wife, Magdalena and family members immigrated from Austria to the US in 1857 and became naturalized citizens. Years later, he applied for a passport in the district court of Rice County, Minnesota and was issued a Passport on December 12, 1874. I have a copy of the passport.
They intended to travel back to Judenberg, Austria. They appear on a June 1875 Census so they didn't travel until after that date. I have a death record that shows she died of pneumonia in Judenberg on August 24, 1877. So the travel time was between June 1875 and 1877.
My question:
I would like to find documentation of their departure from the US and arrival Austria. Can their travel history be traced using the passport number?
Thank you!
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Hello,
I am working with a local translator at the Logan, UT, Family Search Center. We are stumped over the cause of death of my ancestor Anna Hemmer as well as the meaning of the word Bersehen in the column heading to the left of the Cause of Death column. Part of the word seems to translate "mistake"? The link to the death record is below.
Thank you so much for taking a look.
Tammi
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9277/?pg=31
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The cause of death is Rückenmarkschwindsucht, whatever the heck that is. (Google Translate does it by parts and comes up with "spinal cord consumption"; a more general search suggests it might be a form of late-stage syphillis?)
I think the column preceding the cause of death has something to do with whether an official observer (coroner or the like) was involved: Versehen can mean something like "completed, seen [to]".
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Oh, my gosh. Sounds bad either way! Thank you for spelling the word out. We couldn't get all of the letters to do a good google translate.
I haven't seen too many death records so the "seen to" column was something new. The translator couldn't figure it out either.
Thanks very much!
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I am attaching a marriage record link for my ancestor, Christian Hemmer, and his wife Maria Tauber-in.
Looks like 22 June 1788 for the wedding date, in Oberwald, Ligist, they were single before marriage. If I am incorrect, please correct me.
It is odd that the parents of the bride and groom are not mentioned. Are they perhaps listed in the "Beiftande" column? Thank you for translating those names.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=42
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That's a rather uninformative format of marriage register, although at least it has the ages of the bride and groom...
1790. June 22. Officiant: Hoffmann. House-number: 41.
Groom: Christian Hemer, Catholic, age 25, single.
Bride: Maria Tauberin, Catholic, age 24, single.
Witnesses (Beistände: bystanders <grin>): Hans Forster, laborer [his mark]; Hans Reiter, laborer [his mark].
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Thank you, Julia, for the witness names.
It was a disappointment not have any leads to find Christian's parents. I reviewed the Matricula, Ligist, baptism records from about 1759 to 1769, looking for Christian's name. I only found two, see the links below. Neither have a birth year of 1765. Which would be his birth year according to the marriage record above. They are close - does this rule them out?
The record books are from 3 different villages, so perhaps the village of Oberwald is named? I didn't see it tho. This village has been a honey pot for Hemmer records. I appreciate your review, translation and opinions.
Perhaps a sibling record may lead to a clue - as far as village.
The record link below is dated July 1760 with Petrus and Gertraut as parents of Chrisitian. In scanning all the record years, I didn't see other births to Petrus and Gertraut.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/11542/?pg=30
The record link below is another possible baptism record for Christian born in 1762 to parents Jacob and Catharina. Jacob and Catharina had at least three other children that I could find, Maria 1760, page 27, another child in 1765 on page 37, and Theresia, page 41 in 1766. If you think it worth looking at these records, I will attach the links after your response.
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/11542/?pg=34
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I can't think of an easy way to rule either of those Christians in or out. They're both older than the marriage record says; the 1760 one would've been 30, which seems a tad late for a first marriage, but if he was in the army....
Have you checked the death records, to see if either (or both) of the "candidates" died in childhood? (Not an easy task: I can't find a death index for Ligist before 1788.)
I wasn't very thorough, but I also paged through the baptisms, and found only the two Christians that you also found.
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Yes, I agree one would have been too old. I am glad we turned up the same number of Christians. I have been searching marriage records for his "siblings." Hoping to find parentage info. I found one record for Maria, then a widow and remarrying at 30. Her parents weren't mentioned. I was getting into Latin trying to scan through records and those records didn't list parents of the bride and groom.
I didn't think one of them would be deceased - good idea. Then the parents would be listed.
Well, I have plenty to do as far as research and that includes looking for death records and siblings not so far back in time.
You are a pleasure to work with!! Talk again soon
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Hello, Julia,
From these links to marriages, would you be able translate the first name of the father and the mother's names of Theresia, Barbara, and Jacob.
I am wondering if they are siblings of Johann Hemmer. Johann's father was Christian Hemmer and his mother was Maria Tauber. Thank you! Tammi
Theresia Hemmer, married 1818
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=117
Barbara Hemmer, married 1818
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=38
Jacob Hemmer, married 1819
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/graz-seckau/ligist/9260/?pg=39
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Jakob is the son of Leonard Hemmer and Theresia ?inkin.
Barbara is _verwittwete Hemmerin_ "widow Mrs. Hemmer". (I haven't been able to figure out what it says afterwards.)
Theresia's father is Christian Hemmer. I can't quite figure out what it says about her mother, but the part I can definitely read is Barbara.
Today is not my day for deciphering That Dratted Handwriting, it seems. I'll try to remember to come back to it later; maybe it'll all be perfectly clear then.
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Thanks, Julia, I appreciate your second look later.
The handwriting is confounding! Interesting that we have a Christian. I got excited for a minute until I saw Barbara was his wife. Hoping it was Maria Tauber. But, he might be one of the Christians (born in 1760) I was trying to rule out in previous emails.
I am thankful for any help you or anyone else can provide to decipher.
Tammi
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