Danish Translation of Marriage Record: Bodil Hansdatter and Thomas Clausen
Marriage record in Nørre Nærå parish in 1778. There are two entries on the same page (image 233). One is their betrothal on 30 Nov. 1778 and the marriage is on 28 December 1778. On the betrothal there appears to be more information that needs translation.
I'm having trouble finding the birth or death of Bodil Hansdatter, MKQX-DH6, (born around 1757; alive in Stokkemarke in 1801 census and hope the betrothal announcement may give clues to her birth!
There appears to be a possible moving record in Stokkemarke in 1814 on image 540 showing a Bodil Hansdotter, age 60, and son, Claus Thomasen, age 33.
1801 Danish census shows the following:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1470369 The census gives her age but not birthplace. She was married in Norre Naeraa Parish, so she may have been born there.
Thank you for any help you can offer!
Joellen McAlister
Melhores respostas
-
It is a huge problem to find people (with common names), who move around at this time period, as the church books don't give much information. Often the only way to prove you have the right person, is the fortunate find of a probate!
When you have marriages in Danish church books where it says "af x", but that doesn't mean where they were born, but where they dwelled at the time of the marriage! That also fooled me when I started genealogy.
It was a tradition in Denmark that you married in the bride's parish (often, but not always the case) - but ONLY when she was previously unmarried. Later marriages of widows can take place anywhere!
"Den 30. November [1778] Thomas Clausen og Bodild Hansdatter, begge af Røeslef [= Roerslev in Nørre Nærå Sogn] efter en Kongelige Bevilling de dato Kiøbenhavn d. 20. November 1778."
Forlovere: Jens Hansen i Gonstrup [modern Gundstrup or Gundestrup?] og Rasmus Hansen i Baarese [modern Bårse?].
So since they got a "Kongelig Bevilling" for the marriage, it could be from one of the following reasons: [But the church book doesn't state which of these possibilities were the case]
One of them were to young [18 for boys and 16 for girls], and if one (or both) of them weren't confirmed, they couldn't be betrothed or married.
One of them had a previous divorce.
They were kin to each other [you then needed a "Kongebrev"].
Didn't have "lysning" in church, but were betrothed in a private home with witnesses (perhaps since it wasn't her home marriage?)
As both the groomsmen are (seemingly) from location outside Nørre Nærå parish, it is likely Thomas Clausen and Bodil Hansdatter met each other while working in a parish, perhaps neither is from originally!
1 -
It is very frustrating, but I also have relatives from that time period, where it is impossible to prove who is the right one. [when you realise you have an ancestor called Ane Jensdatter, who worked as a servant girl; then you want to scream, because it is an insanely common name, where you can have several born the same year and confirmed the same year within the same parish, so it is impossible to tell them apart, when the church books provide so little information -> only in Sønderjylland/Slesvig does parents often get listed when married].
As I said only a probate that often lists daughters husbands and dwelling place can bring the proof one needs, and without one it's sadly is impossible with people bearing common names.
Yeah Sweden is the easiest place to do genealogy, because of the priests checking for correct religious belief and reading skills among the people of the parish every year!
In Denmark it was the final school exam with the confirmation grades, that was the important to be considered an adult.
It must have been so weird for Scandinavians to emigrate to the US and meet adult people that couldn't read or write!
In Scandinavia you would be declared "umyndig" [not legally considered an adult] and be regarded as an "idiot" -> when you see that written in a census in Denmark, it means a person that didn't pass they school exam and then couldn't become confirmed; meaning they couldn't own anything, couldn't have a job, not become betrothed/married etc.
0
Respostas
-
I appreciate all that I'm learning from you. I just wish the records had more information -- like the Swedish records! I still have no clue where to look for her. If only they had clerical surveys!
Joellen
0 -
I couldn't find the moving record [afgangsliste] away from Stokkemarke in 1814.
What is the letter number (top right?) on the original page?!
0 -
I'm embarrassed. I must have been working late at night, because I can't find the moving record in 1814 from Stokkemarke. It doesn't make sense anyway, now that I know she married again in 1802 in Stokkemarke. I have so many pages of notes I'm trying to juggle; I must have just made a mistake. Sorry to trouble you. I rechecked on familysearch and danishfamilysearch with no success.
Thanks again for all of your help!
Joellen
0 -
In the link you sent to me, http://www.wadschier.dk/afskrifter/noerre_naeraa_sogns_befolkning_til_1787.pdf on Tabel 138 it lists a Hans Hansen who died 1749 In Ringe; but his son, Hans Hansen was christened 20 Sept. 1722 and was a bonde in Roerslev in 1749 på Gyldensten gods. I wonder if there's a probate for the Hans Hansen (1722) that mentions a daughter Bodil Hansdatter (MKQX-DH6 in familysearch) since she was from there when she married Thomas Clausen?
"Den 30. November [1778] Thomas Clausen og Bodild Hansdatter, begge af Røeslef [= Roerslev in Nørre Nærå Sogn] efter en Kongelige Bevilling de dato Kiøbenhavn d. 20. November 1778."
Original record: https://www.familysearch.org/ark%3A/61903/3%3A1%3A3QSQ-G9ZX-WDHM?i=232
Forlovere: Jens Hansen i Gonstrup [modern Gundstrup or Gundestrup?] og Rasmus Hansen i Baarese [modern Bårse?].
I just thought it might be an idea... Please don't feel compelled to find the probate, but if it sounds interesting, it may be very helpful.
0 -
Census 1787: Stokkemarke Sogn.
Thomas Klausen Mand 35 1752 Gift Mand Indsidder og Dagleyer
Bodil Hansdatter Kvinde 30 1757 Gift Kone
Kirsten Thomasdatter Kvinde 7 1780 Ugift Deres barn
Klaus Thomasen Mand 5 1782 Ugift Deres barn
Hans Thomasen Mand 2 1785 Ugift Deres barn
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid403099
NB: So there is agreement with census 1801, that she is born around 1757.
Unfortunately there is no Bodil Hansdatter born in Nørre Nærå Sogn in that time period.
Which means she was not a local, and probably needed a royal grant to be married outside her own parish.
One could look in other parishes close to Nørre Nærå for a Bodil Hansdatter born around that age, but since it is a common name, it will be impossible to verify whether it was the correct one or not.
Only if a probate is found, where it states that Bodil Hansdatter is married to Thomas Clausen in Stokkemarke, will give proof. That is very unlikely that one of her parents die within the "right" time period and are rich enough to even have a probate [only conducted if there is something to inherit].
We have one possible clue.....
Thomas Clausen & Bodil Hansdatter was married in Nørre Næraa in 1778 and in 1779 their oldest child Kirsten Thomasdatter was born in Nørre Næraa Sogn [before they moved to Lolland]
Laers [= Lars] Hansens hustru bar barnet.
Faddere: Laars [= Lars] Hansen og Niels Jensen, begge af Bredstrup [in Nørre Næraa Sogn], samt Niels Nielsen og Jesper Jørgensens datter, begge af Røeslef [Roerslev].
Source (page 38, right mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138087#180395,30600461
NB: Could Laers Hansen be an older brother?
Census 1787: Bredstrup. Nørre Næraa Sogn.
Laers Hansen Mand 47 1740 Gift Husbonde Bonde og Gaardbeboer
Malene Clausdatter Kvinde 30 1757 Gift Madmoder
Hans Laersen Mand 10 1777 Ugift Deres barn
Niels Laersen Mand 6 1781 Ugift Deres barn
Karen Laersdatter Kvinde 4 1783 Ugift Deres barn
Hans Andersen Mand 30 1757 Gift Tjenestekarl
Birthe Laersdatter Kvinde 28 1759 Ugift Tjenestepige
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid118274
NB: He is married to a Clausdatter......could it be instead that Malene Clausdatter was a sister to Thomas Clausen?
Trolovet 28. Juli 1777 in Nørre Næraa Sogn.
Laers Hansen af Bredstrup og Malene Clausdatter af Røeslef [Roerslev] trolovede.
Forlovere: Rasmus Hansen og ?...? og Claus Thomasen af Røeslef.
Source (page 35, right mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138087#180395,30600458
Claus Thomasen is the father of Thomas Clausen og Malene Clausdatter, so that is the connection!
0