Help finding a marriage registry in Granada, Andalucia
FamilySearch suggested an already "indexed"-ish marriage event but I'm going crazy trying to find it, so I've decided to look for some help from the more experienced users.
There's a suggestion on the Pre-Marriage collection:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XPPS-T9K
And another suggestion on the Spain Marriage collection:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CS92-CBZM
But both lead to the same place. And in both it's registered that the record can be found on image 99 of that collection (that has more than two thousand images). I've already read some tips about it and it seems that normally I could find waypoints to help in the search, but I can't find it in that case and beyond the enormous size of the collection, it seems that everything is unorganized.
Anyone can give some hint about it, please?
답변들
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It starts here. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSQ-9SP7-C?i=1187 It is multiple pages. Be sure to read through them closely. These can be very hard to browse through due to the multiple pages of each document. Let us know if you need any help reading it.
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Hi Pedro,
The publication of the pre-marriage investigations from the diocesis of Granada can be confusing. The two indexed records you referenced come from the same record, FamilySearch just published it twice...long story. The collection includes all pre-marriage investigations that were preserved by the diocesis...I've found this to be about 65% of all marriages that took place in the diocesis.
With the pre-marriage investigation collection the 'Reference Number' actually refers to a sequence number, or the record on the film/digital folder. The index was actually created in 1988 before digital so the only way for this collection was to record the order or sequence of the marriages found on the film. FamilySearch's system thinks this refers to an image number so it suggests that it came from image 99. The marriage you reference actually begins on image 1182 and goes through image 1191.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSQ-9SG5-J?i=1181
The diocesan archive or Granada has contractually restricted the images to certain groups of users. If you can't access the images let me know and I will extract the genealogical information from the record. If you need help finding the images of another pre-marriage investigation let me know. I have used the collection quite extensively and am happy to help.
-Lynn
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Thanks a lot Debbie and Lynn! Your directions were a lot of help. But, how did you get there? Let me see, if 99 is the order of the pre-marriage investigation, and each investigation has an average of 10 pages, we could say that this investigation would probably start somewhere after 990 images. Was that the line of thought to get there?
I did a first investigation (of the pre-marriage investigation) and found some information, but it's very hard to understand most of the writing. What I have so far:
The bride:
'Maria del Carmen Barbero Martin', 24 years old by the time, born in the city Almunecar, Granada.
Father: 'José Barbero Guillen' (Guillon?)
Paternal grandparents: 'José' and 'Angeles Guillen'
Mother: 'Josefa Martin Perez'
Maternal grandparents: 'Manuel' and 'Maria del Carmen Perez'
The groom:
'José Albertos Alaminos'
Father: 'Gregorio Albertos Rodrigues'
Wedding in Granada in December/1891.
Strangely I saw almost nothing there about the groom, while the bride is mentioned all the time. The indexed record says the marriage event occurred on December 16, 1891, but I did not find the information of the day (16).
Also, it was very curious to find who were in the next investigation (starting on https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSQ-9S6J-S, images 1192 to 1199):
'Miguel Albertos Alaminos' and 'Maria Dolores Martin Barbero'!
Apparently the brothers married the sisters!
What I found there:
The groom:
'Miguel Albertos Alaminos', born in the city Almunecar, Granada.
Father: 'Gregorio Albertos Rodrigues(z)'
Paternal grandparents: 'José' and '???'
Mother: 'Francisca Alaminos'
Maternal grandparents: 'Joaquim Alaminos' and 'Antonia ???'
The bride:
'Maria Dolores Martin Barbero'
Father: 'José Martin Perez'
Paternal grandparents: 'Manuel' and 'Maria Perez'
Mother: 'Francisca Barbero Guillen'
Maternal grandparents: 'José' and 'Maria Angeles Guillen'
On the bride's side they either mixed the names or I didn't get it right, because it was reversed in relation to the other investigation process.
I am very doubtful from the beginning regarding the groom's surname 'Albertos', because the descendants bear the surname 'Alberto' (without the 's' at the end) and in this image here, it seemed to me that it would be without the 's' at the very end (although in all other places it appears to have an 's' at the end of the surname):
Image 1194
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSSQ-9SBW-X
Thanks again!
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Pedro,
I need to take more time to read the record, but the groom - Jose Albertos was in the military. It should still have all his information in the pre-marriage investigation record like his brother Miguel (like you identified correctly). The brides were not sisters though, they were first cousins, note the surnames and baptism record in Miguel's pre-marriage investigation.
Almunecar does have some baptism records that survived the Spanish civil war. See this link for more info: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/370315?availability=Family%20History%20Library
-Lynn
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Thanks again Lynn! How do you know all that? How do you know Jose Albertos was in the military? And that the brides are cousins? Is it all writing there? Wow, is there a baptism record there? I didn't even notice it!
Thanks for the link for baptism records on Almunecar. By my reckoning the birth of the bride (Maria del Carmen Barbero Martin) would be in 1867, but, I searched in 1867, and 1868, and 1866, and I haven't found anything yet ... I'll try again later.
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Hi Pedro,
Here is a summary for each image...
Image 1182 - Soldier that has completed 6 years active duty
Image 1183 - Maria del Carmen’s father giving permission for her to marry Jose. The father’s of the couple are mentioned. Jose’s father was Gregorio Albertos Rodrigues
1184 - Copy of Maria del Carmen’s baptism record
- Baptized in Almunecar - 23 Oct 1867, born on 22nd of Oct
- Father: Jose Barbero
- Paternal Grandparents: Jose (Barbero) and Angeles Guillen
- Mother: Josefa Martin
- Maternal Grandparents: Manuel (Martin) and Maria del Carmen Perez
- All of Almunecar
1185 - Maria del Carmen testifies that she is is single, always resided in Almunecar and wants to marry Jose. Statement also says that Jose is in the military assigned to this jurisdiction.
1186 - 3 witnesses appear and testify before the priest to testify on behalf of the engaged couple. The first 2 witnesses testify. These do not give additional detail about either that is already known.
1187 - 3rd witness’ testimony plus the final statement from the parish priest that the couple is not related and are in good standing in the church and can marry.
1188-1191 - summary of the pre-marriage investigation and statement from he priest that the couple was married on 16 Dec 1891
I'm having image availability problems to view Miguel Albertos' record to review and explain the relation to Jose. However, I recommend that you book a free online consultation with a member of our Family History Library staff (Debbie and I are included in that), so that we can walk you through this record and using this collection more easily. You can book a consultation here: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Family_History_Library_Online_Consultations
One last thing - Albertos is a variant of Alberto, in this area of Spain you will also see Albertus. I've researched a family with that surname in the town of Molvizar where they switched between Albertos and Albertus.
-Lynn
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Hi, I receive the pop-up window indicating that the viewing of these images are restricted to the Family History Centers, is that correct ?
thanks
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Yes, that is correct. The restriction from the archive was for FamilySearch to restrict access to the images to FHCs and to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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Wow Lynn, you are incredible! Thank you very much! 😃
After knowing the exactly Maria del Carmen's birth date I got back to that Almunecar catalog but I really can't find her record there. On image 520 there's a record on 16/october/1867 (Maria Rosa Teresa de Jesus) and the next one is on 05/november/1867 (Ambrosio Zacarias). No record on 23 Oct 1867 or 22nd of Oct, and no record for Maria del Carmen Barbero Martin:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSX5-K9J1-Q
I didn't know we could book free online consultation with staff member! That's very nice. But, I'm not a native English speaker (I'm from Brazil actually), so I don't know if that's a problem...
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Hi Lynn.
It turned out that there are a lot of books from the city Albuñuelas on that collection of baptism records from the city Almuñecar. So, I was looking in the wrong book and now I've finally found Maria del Carmen's baptism record:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSX5-K9XC-B
I've also managed to find her daughter Francisca's baptism record, in the records of the year 1900 of the city Almuñecar:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSX5-KPW
Unfortunately, I can't find the baptism record of the daughter that I really want, my great-grandmother Encarnación. By my calculations she should be born between 1896 and 1898, and there's a book exactly on those years, but, to my sadness, the book begins on August 12, 1896 and ends on June 8, 1898:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSX5-K9FZ-Y
I've looked at the index a few times and didn't find it, I also looked at all the pages but nothing. I believe that she is just in the months that are out... Is there any other place where I can look for her baptismal record?
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