I know nothing about my grandfather Boris Zagudaev (b.1918? - d.198?). I'm researching his ancestry.

Dmitri Smirnoff

I know nothing about my grandfather Boris Zagudaev (b.1918? - d.198?). I'm researching his ancestry. Please advise.

My paternal Y-DNA I1-M253; I-Y6343; I-Y18103; I-FT155255; I-BY96216;

Haplogroup I-Y18103 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y18103

DanteLabs.com WGS x30 (US$200 sale) > Yseq.com > Yfull.com: YF68386 http://www.yfull.com/share/yreport/d8829e2e0ada988eb8a2fce6e1b642a2/

Y-Haplogroup:I-Y52957 Terminal SNPs:BY96216 • Y52957

• Known SNPs (189105)
• Positive SNPs (3010)
• Ambiguous SNPs (65)
• No call SNPs (66)

Y-DNA: A10086 mtDNA: A10087 https://www.mitoydna.org/

My kit profile FM3912914 https://www.gedmatch.com

I have compared my matches from Y-DNA on gedmatch.com and with many of them I still have connections!

My paternal Y-DNA I1 L69/ Y18103 FT155455 BY96216 (Y52957) Branch of the North European haplogroup I1-M253, which from about 1000 years occurs mainly on the Southern coast of the Baltic Sea. It is called the I1-Vistula branch, because most of its members are descendants of Germans, Poles, Pomeranians and Old-Prussians, living at the Vistula River Basin. The most recent common ancestor of us arrived probably in 9th or 10thcentury AC to the Gdansk/Danzig Pomerania, which in those times was under Danish control, from the Norwegian/Swedish/Danish coasts of the Skagerrak Sea in Scandinavia. VISTULA:[https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/normans-ce/activity-feed]

My last known paternal grand father line is I1-Y18103 Zagudaev Boris (1918-198?) (Lived in Yekaterinburg, Russia). Son Alexey 1947 and daughter Svetlana ~1950

 

 

 

Michael-Cooley

Hi Dmitri,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Note that for some reason, familysearch isn't displaying the graphics.

 

First, since you're only a couple generation away, autosomes would be best for identifying your grandfather. Otherwise, you're heading down a fruitful path...

 

Yes, we use DNA to get leads on our ancestry, but the name themselves, of course, are not recorded in the DNA. Just as autosomal DNA helps us find cousins who might know about the lineage, so does Y-DNA. Once you have the data, you next need to find those who match. That can be hard because we're taking perhaps 5th cousins and beyond, people you're not likely to have heard about through family lore.

 

Thanks for the links to YFull. They present the data clearly and cleanly. Their estimate is that your Y52957 is at least 1200 years old. Cousins connected back that far are not going to be easy to find or be that helpful. Now, you likely have a large number of novel variants that emerged since your ancestor of about 800 CE. You'll want to get them parsed out as effectively as possible. Your terminal SNP will then be on something of the order of 400 years old, give or take. Finding matching cousins, then, begins much more reasonable. Other than the matching SNP, a good way to identifying them -- assuming they've tested, of course -- is through the Y-111. If any names sound familiar, ask them to test. If any have done the Big Y, see if the show up in your matches. Compare the two genetic trees and compare the timeline.

 

As no doubt you've learned, this is very much a waiting game. But by being proactive, you might be able to push it forward a little quicker.

 

I'm in a similar boat. My R1a-YP4248 is more than 1,000 years old. But I also know my own genealogy nine generations back and have found several matches on the terminal SNP, YP4491. But we still have that huge gap to travel. To help get us there, I've started the R1a-YP4248 Subclade Project. We're pulled in maybe a dozen or so surnames, many with EKAs and locations, and have constructed a SNP tree and a map of sorts. The home page is only a few months old and is sparse, but there are techniques being used there that might help. (I hope to have a Y-111 study ready soon.)

 

http://dna.ancestraldata.com/YP4248/

 

Sorry I can't be more specific than that. It's about methodology . Genealogy is best done from the bottom up, the genetics generally is down from the top down. Somewhere the two will meet. By working both ends at once, we're going to shed some light on the murky area of the Middle Ages. Still, you want to find your guy's parents. Studying the Y-111 and pulling in as many testers as you can might be the place to look for now. But again, since he's only a couple of generations away, finding autosome matches would be especially helpful.

 

I hope that helps in some way. Let me know if you have any further questions.

 

Best,

Michael Cooley

Dmitri Smirnoff

I have compared my matches from Y-DNA on gedmatch.com and with many of them I still have 4-7 cousins connections!

Michael-Cooley

You might enlist some closer relatives. The matching segments might begin to make sense. Is Zagudaev your paternal grandfather?

Dmitri Smirnoff

Thanks for reply. Boris Zagudaev ~1918 - 199x? was my paternal grandfather. https://www.geni.com/family-tree/canvas/6000000086703880827

Haplogroup I-Y18103 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y18103

Visloguzov YF16765 one match from Russia many others from Poland.

Molecular genealogy confirms that he was I1: I-Y18103 [yfull.com] They were Kuban Cossacks (in the middle of the 19th century they moved to the Kuban and enrolled in the Cossacks)

Terenty Kasyanovich VISLOGUZOV Birth: 1826 Death: 1905 (78-79)

Gubskaya Krasnodarski Krai

I-Y18103 Alexander Brzozowski b.1943, Spassk-Dal'niy Russia / Poland YF66962 I-Y128044 All shared SNPs:37

Michael-Cooley

Thanks. I noticed the surname was different and just wanted to be sure we're on the same page.

 

Does FTDNA show you with any Big Y matches, with any Y-111 matches?

Dmitri Smirnoff

 

 

 

Zagudaev YF68386 

Visloguzov YF16765 one of two matches from Russia among many other matches from Poland.

 

From 23andme.com > Krasnodar Krai

 

 In the last 200 years, your ancestors may have lived in the following locations.

We found evidence of your recent ancestry in the following regions. Darker regions represent places where you have DNA in common with more people who report ancestry from that particular region. Because these results reflect the ancestries of individuals currently in our reference database, expect to see your results change over time as that database grows. Read more in Scientific Details.

 

 

 https://www.geni.com/people/Terenty-Visloguzov/6000000141953986844

Terenty Kasyanovich VISLOGUZOV

Gender: Male

Birth: 1826

Gubskaya Krasnodar Krai

Death: 1905 (78-79)

Dmitri Smirnoff

I-FT155455 Ksawery Wiśniewski b. abt 1820, Mały Płock, Poland YF66359 Terminal: I-Y113434 All shared SNPs 40 

Mały Płock is a village in Kolno County, Podlaskie Voivodeship, in north-eastern Poland https://www.geni.com/people/Ksawery-Wi%C5%9Bniewski/6000000143862763883

 

 Comparing Kit FM3912914 (*Dmitri Smirnoff - 23andme) [23andMe] and (Piotr Wisniewski) [FTDNA] YF66359

23andme.com We found evidence of your recent ancestry in the following regions: Podlaskie Voivodeship

 

 

 

 

 

Dmitri Smirnoff

I-Y18103 Alexander Brzozowski b.1943, Spassk-Dal'niy Russia / Poland YF66962 I-Y128044 All shared

SNPs:37

Comparing Kit (Konstantin Bagrationov I1a-6340+ Mt H6a1a2a) [23andMe V5] and MZ2676510 (Alexey Smirnoff Zagudaev) [MyHeritage]

Dmitri Smirnoff

I have my WGS x30 YDNA & mtDNA done at DanteLabs (all US$200) and interpretations at yfull.com

 

Tests at FTDNA.com: Y111 and I1-Y18103 haplogroup

 

Genetic Distance Full Name First Name Middle Name Last Name Earliest Known Ancestor Y-DNA Haplogroup Terminal SNP

 

1 Tadeusz Sochocki >Andrzej Sachocki (linia Krupa) ur.1630 Przedpelce I-Y15543 Y15543

 

1 Mr. Ronald W. Rose Ronald W. Rose Karl J. Rose, b.a.1860, NeuCampenau, West-Prussia I-M253

1 Allan Pecchioli > Dante Pecchioli, b.1888 I-Y18103 Y18103

 

2 Pawel Andrzej Bardzik Pawel Andrzej Bardzik I-Y16809 Y16809

 

2 Stefan Cemicky I-A17246 A17246

 

2 Marian Salwa I-M253

 

2 Stefan Jonsson I-M253

*2 Mr. Marek Piotr Wójcicki Jr. Marek Piotr Wójcicki Maciej Woycik, abt. 1650 I-Y18103 Y18103

 

2 Mr. Jacek Wojciech Pietruszewski,bc.1865,Wilkow,n. Poddebice, Poland I-A17797 A17797

 

*2 Dr. Maciej Oziemblowski, Lwow, Poland till 1939 I-BY96216 BY96216

 

2 Ph.D. Przemyslaw Nawrocki > Wojciech Nawrocki, d.1862 I-BY96216 BY96216

 

2 Mr. Scott Jurewicz > John Jurewicz I-M253

2 Jerald Bill Gartman Jerald Bill Gartman Carl Gartman, b. 1843 and d. 1916 I-BY34717 BY34717

 

*2 Leszek Babinski > Felix de Babino (Podlachia), b.ca. 1515 d. >1569 I-M253

2 Len Barcousky Len Barcousky Petras Barkauskas, b.1870 and d. 1921 I-M253

2 Andrey Ignatov Andrey Ignatov I-M253

2 Mr. Stanisław Wójcicki Maciej Wóycik, abt. 1650 I-M253

2 Karl Przedpelski Karl I-M253

2 William Scott Gartmann William Scott Gartmann I-M253 M253

 

*2 Mr. Konstantin Bagrationov > Alexander Brzozowski b.1943, Spassk-Dal'niy I-Z23433 Z23433

 

2 Kiss Jozsef Kiss, Jaszdozsa, Hungary I-M253

 

2 Pietruszewski,bc.1865,Wilkow,n.Poddebice,Poland I-M253

2 Reck Gottfried Reck, b.1821, Klein Stürlack/Ostpreussen I-M253

 

*contacted matches

Michael-Cooley

Finding a mutual ancestor over 6-7 generations is very hard. And 40 shared SNPs pretty much takes the game outside the genealogical timeframe. Still, you're doing everything right. It's a waiting game at this point.

 

If you haven't already, I'd see if YSEQ.net offers testing on your more recent haplogroup and novel SNPs. They sequence individual SNPs for only $18. If there's someone you're suspicious about, you can ask him to test, say I-Y18103. I've paid for numerous such tests.

 

Have you looked at the Y-DNA groups on facebook? This is a good one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/257810104756408

Dmitri Smirnoff

Yes, BY96216 is stable and I've reviewed and confirmed this result from your BAM file. Now the display in the cladefinder box in your account should reflect the updated status.

This is how fast the Y tree develops, thanks to people like you who submit their BAM file to YFull.

At the time when we scored your results in May, the whole FT155455 branch was considered as private and didn't show up on the YFull tree.

Best regards,

Thomas

Yseq

Michael-Cooley

Yes, that's the kind of response one would expect from Thomas. He's a great guy.

 

The problem, of course, is that too many people don't submit to YFull. This might have changed lately, but the R1b admins were once discouraging it, preferring Alex Williamson's Big Tree.

Dmitri Smirnoff

Interesting project "Alex Williamson's Big Tree."

I registered Y DNA and mt DNA on the https://www.mitoydna.org/

Dmitri Smirnoff

the surname was different ....

 1) How to know if my late granddad is my biological grandfather?

DNA Surprises support group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1798909400175879/

2) Adoptee

3) As a step child would you ever take your step fathers last name?

4) Many people were afraide of the Purge and changed theire last names after 1917 revolution and during Great Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge 1933-1938

5) Children of "ennemies of the people" as victims of the Great Purges

Dmitri Smirnoff

A10086 Zagudaev (Russia? Uknown) I-BY96216

T10598 Bagrationov-Brzozowsky (Russia) I1-A17238

 

https://www.mitoydna.org/Public/YCompare?MtyID=A10086&Distance=2&Markers=25

Michael-Cooley

Yeah, there are several reason for an NPE. Are there Y-DNA Projects for any of these names. I was surprised to see that there are none at FTDNA for Smirnoff. Un;ess I missed it, it would be a good one to start.

Dmitri Smirnoff

* Tatyana Vasilievna SMIRNOVA December 01, 1918 - 1996 (78) 

* Boris Zagudaev circa 1918 - 1986  

Prisoner of World War II, 1941–1945. Deportation in Kazahstan 1941- 1946

* Children: Alexei Smirnov 1947

They could not marry and live together. Tatyana protected her son Alexei and did not register father's name in his birth certificate.

* Commenting on Order No. 270, Stalin stated: "There are no Soviet prisoners of war, only traitors."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_No._270]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_members_of_traitors_to_the_Motherland]

On August 6, 1941, Stalin, Molotov, Budyonny, Voroshilov, Timoshenko, Shaposhnikov and Zhukov signed order # 270: “those who are surrendering are considered malicious deserters, whose family is subject to arrest ...”.

World War II, 1941–1945 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union]

 

Her parents:

* Alexandra Vasilievna SMIRNOVA 1884 - July 05, 1971 (86-87)

* Vasily SMIRNOV         circa 1884 - 1923

 

Children:

* Alexey Vasilievich SMIRNOV died in the war around 1903 -1941

* Nadezhda Vasilievna SMIRNOVA August 13, 1913 - February 21, 1993 (79)

* '''Tatyana Vasilievna SMIRNOVA December 01, 1918 - 1996 (78)'''

* Elizaveta Vasilievna KHMARSKAYA (Smirnova) July 26, 1921 - November 13, 2006 (85)

* 

 

Family house, Truda street 22, Yekaterinburg, Sverdlovsk region, Russian Federation (Russia)