Help transcribing remarks section of 1839 Danish burial record
I can't quite make out the birth information given after født in the anmærkninger section of this entry.
답변들
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Født paa Søren
til Drlogsi?
I am unsure what the last word is but I think it might be a nearby place probably within the parish
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Kelsee, could you provide a link to the record?
The writing looks to me like "født paa Søen til Orlogsi"; I agree with Tanner that it's probably a location within the parish. "Paa Søen" means "on [or at] the lake."
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Tanner and Charlotte thanks for taking a look at this! FS has an image but the one on Ancestry is a little easier to read. The link is: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61607/images/48438_22021000034_2058-00209?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qUK4274&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.171359712.1538814438.1592853604-266247054.1492892404&pId=4358&backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3Findiv%3D1%26dbid%3D61607%26h%3D4358%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DqUK4274%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource
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@Shari Duce, you must have accidentally pasted in the wrong link, as that goes to the death record. Do you have a link to the christening record?
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Apologies for the error, I typed christening instead of death. I do not have the christening record.
The death record above may be Peder Johannes Henrik Raps. Also seen in this 1801 census as Peder Raps.
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These answers are all very helpful, thanks to you all for the input! I suspected that he might have been from out of town, but from these comments, it looks like he may have actually been born in this parish. I will have to spend some time looking through gazetteers for that place name!
And @Shari Duce, thanks for attaching that 1801 census extract! It matches what is known about the family at this time perfectly.
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Kelsee, you might find it interesting there are various probates for individuals with the Raps name.
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Some of our more experienced individuals @Charlotte Noelle Champenois can help you with details of this probate, page 94 for Johan Henrich Raps. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-F3ZN-KQ47?i=388&cat=506601
Probate for Sidsel, page 74. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-F3ZN-K7L4?i=378&cat=506601
I'll be anxious to hear the details, but it appears they are poor and family members not named.
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Very nice finds, Shari! Unfortunately as you mentioned, these probate records don't list family members.
Kelsee, pages 93-94 of the probate Shari linked state that on 26 Feb 1839 at 11 a.m. the probate court for Aalborg birk [small judicial district] was set and held in Aalborg city court, in the legal absence of Mr. councilor, city baliff, and birk judge Wolffadt [who was] at a commission inquiry, by attorney Nissen in the presence of the witnesses clerk Fanøe and parish bailiff Dannebrogsmand J. Krogh, where it took place ? the pauper/welfare recipient Johan Henrik Raps of Nørre Sundbye, who today is reported to have died. Poorhouse superintendent Christen Nyborg was met with and desired that the estate [belongings of the deceased] be extended [given] to Nørre Sundbye parish's system of poor relief, partly because the deceased leaves behind nothing and [partly because the deceased] for many years has enjoyed/benefited from support from the parish. The request was granted and the estate [belongings] extended [given] to Nørre Sundbye parish's system of poor relief. Probate court.
The probate for Sidsel states that on 5 July 1838 at 6 p.m. the poorhouse superintendent Christen Nyborg showed up at councilor, city baliff, and birk [small judicial district] judge Wolfferdt's office in the Aalborg town hall and reported that the pauper/welfare recipient Johan Henrik Raps's wife Sidsel Andersdatter of Nørre Sundbye, age 77, has died, and that she for several years has enjoyed/received support from the system of poor relief, for the which reason he requested that the estate [belongings of the deceased], which only consists of some old rags of everyday clothes, should be extended [given] to Nørre Sundbye parish's poorhouse. The request was granted and the estate [belongings] extended [given] to Nørre Sundbye parish's system of poor relief.
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Thank you very much for the translations. @Charlotte Noelle Champenois I'm grateful for your time and skills.
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@Charlotte Noelle Champenois and @Shari Duce I am astounded at the wealth of information given here. Thank you, thank you for your help! I know the time and skills that go into being able to read and decipher documents like this is immense. Thanks again for your time and help! I so appreciate it. 😊
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Do you have a link to this search? I'd love to look for additional Raps individuals, in case there are more than shown.
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You're very welcome, Kelsee! 😊
I noticed that in most of the records, Peder Johannes Henrik Raps is listed as simply Peder Raps, but in the 1834 census (linked) in Nørresundby and in the probate above, he is listed as Johan Henrich Raps--so he goes by both.
Sometimes Danish censuses list the birth parish, so I looked at a couple of censuses to see if they'd give us a clue. There's the 1801 census Shari showed you a snippet of above. And I found an 1801 census in the same parish of Nørresundby for a Johan Peter Raps, born 1784, with his widowed
mother, Karen Marie Christensdatter; with the unusual surname of Raps and with this being in the same parish, these are almost certainly relatives. It's possible this is the mother and a brother of your Peder Johannes Henrik Raps (alternatively, this Johan Peter Raps could be your Peder Johannes Henrik Raps's cousin). Karen Marie Christensdatter's burial record might list her husband's name, and her husband would've died between 1784 (when the son was born) and 1801 (when the census was taken).
I also noticed that in the 23 July 1799 birth record (linked) of Peter Raps and Zidsel Andersdatter's child Johan Friderich in Sundbye, all the godparents/witnesses (none of whom were a Raps) were from Aalborg. This could be a clue as to where the father was from, if he was not born in Nørresundby.
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@kelseekj kelseekj, I wrote above that it looks like "født paa Søen til Orlogsi"; it sounded like it meant a small location within a parish (not necessarily this one, but likely). However, Orlogsi just didn't sound like a Danish placename, which bugged me. So I looked into the word itself as a word and found the following:
- According to Den Danske Ordbog, "orlog" means "krigstjeneste til søs"--i.e., "war service at sea."
- The word "søen" means "the lake," but it can also mean "the sea." I picked the lake translation previously, but the word "orlog" clarifies that it's actually the sea in this case.
This means that Peder Johannes Henrik Raps was born on the sea during war service. As such, I wonder where his actual birth entry is; it would've likely been recorded in his parents' home parish, which could be Nørresundby.
When I look at the word in the entry above now, I can see that what I thought was an -si is an ending "s" with a loop around (that is, what looks like a dot is the top of the loop; the rest of the loop is in very faint ink). So the word is "Orlogs," which has the definition I've given above.
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Here is a link to the source of my probate searching tool. https://ddd.dda.dk/dprob/soeg_skifte.asp Enjoy.
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This, this, this!! @Charlotte Noelle Champenois, you solved it!! This is fascinating and I'm excited to keep diving into it. Thank you, thank you! 👏
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@Charlotte Noelle Champenois, This is great information, thanks for sharing! Your analysis makes a lot of sense. Even though we don't know the exact connect of Karen Marie Christensdatter (mentioned in the 1801 census) to the family yet, it feels notable to mention that Peder Johannes Henrik Raps' oldest child (born in 1794) was named Karen Marie-- perhaps she was named after Peder's mother? I also noticed that Karen Marie would have been born in the 1730s, which matches nicely with Peder's birth in the 1760s. I know it would be helpful to have more evidence-- searching for those death records is a great idea!
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You're welcome, @kelseekj kelseekj! I was excited when this suddenly made sense!
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