How do I find parents for Per Person, LB42-Y4C, of Haflige, Halland, Sweden?
Please reply in English.
답변들
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How sure are you of the information that is in Family Search Tree concerning the son, Emanuel? What needs to happen is you need to start with information that is certain and then proceed to information that is unknown.
All of the sources for Emanuel are in the United States after he arrives here. The marriage of Emanuel Person and Mathilda Maria Carlson states that his Emanuel's father is Per Olson and his mother is Bajotta Olson.
My Heritage has searchable household records for Sweden that can be searched by birth date and name. Searching for Emanuel born on 11 September 1844, I found what may be his family. The father is Peter Olsson (Peter, Pehr, Pär and Per are all the same name in Swedish) which matches the marriage record in Rhode Island, and the mother is Beata Magnusdotter. Unlike in the United States, most Swedish women, at least until the 20th century, went by their maiden names their entire life. If an American heard the name "Beata" pronounced and didn't know how to spell it, it could be written Bajotta. If you don't have access to My Heritage, I will attach a screenshot of the record for you to look at. It is a household record in Thorsby Parish in Goteborgs och Bohus County in Sweden. I think there is a good chance the this is your Emanuel with his family. It would help prove it if we could find an emigration record for Emanuel to show that he went to America. Please keep in mind that this is only a possibility and is not proved!!
If we can prove that this information is correct, then we can work on Emanuel's parents and other family members.
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That looks good Norm. Have a look at this "Intentions of Marriage" from Rhode Island 1890
Parents are Per Olsson and Bajotta Magnusdotter
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Emanuel's birth
ArkivDigital: Torsby (O) C:4 (1837-1857) Image: 620 Page: 116
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v1182a?image=620
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I lose track of Emanuel in the 1857-1861 book.
Beata is still at Lefstad West in the 62-68 book but I can't read where Emanuel went to.
ArkivDigital: Torsby (O) AI:15 (1857-1861) Image: 71 Page: 133
https://app.arkivdigital.se/volume/v1578?image=71
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I am glad you are looking at this. I have been able to follow him until he moves to Göteborgs Karl Johan parish in 1879. He is married to Carolina Nilsdotter. See here: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0006297_00432#?c=&m=&s=&cv=431&xywh=84%2C1323%2C6069%2C3189 . One small problem is that the spouse and children in this record do not match those in Family Search Tree. However, I am not at all sure that that information is reliable.
I can find an alphabetical index of him moving into Karl Johan parish, but cannot locate the book (B:5 and, I presume, page 110) where he should be. See here for that record: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0035367_00241#?c=&m=&s=&cv=240&xywh=200%2C147%2C4718%2C2479 . Since you have access to Arkivdigital (unfortunately, I do not), perhaps they have more records to view. Or, if you have access to the Swedish Death Book CD, we could at least find out if he dies in Sweden and eliminate him from being the correct person.
Maybe @Morris Geoffrey Fröberg or @Savannah.Larson Savannah.Larson could take a look at this, too.
Edit:
I think that the Emanuel Petersson who married Carolina Nilsdotter, mentioned above, is not the same as the Emanuel Petersson I have been following. Even though they have the same birthdate, they are born in different parishes. I think the clerk who was writing the record must have mixed them up. Emanuel (married to Carolina) was born-according to this record:https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0006297_00432#?c=&m=&s=&cv=431&xywh=107%2C1765%2C2739%2C1439 - in Lysekil 11 Sept 1844 but there is no record of his birth in that parish on that date or even during that year! Besides that, Emanuel married to Carolina, has children born during the same time period as the other Emanuel who is married to Johanna Albertina Johansdotter.
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The inflyttning book is actually Book 4
ArkivDigital: Göteborgs Karl Johan (O) BI:4 (1870-1880) Image: 60 Page: 111
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I think that the Intentions of Marriage record that Clifford found is enough to prove that we have the correct individual. Names and dates all match. Still, it would be nice to have an emigration record!
In the meantime, I have found a record showing the family of Emanuel Petersson and Johanna Albertina Johansdotter in Göteborgs Karl Johan parish showing the exact children that are in Family Search Tree. I will attach that and supply a link to the record.
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@ShellyR Leavitt1 , is this making any sense to you? I think we can answer your question now.
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In Household Books Peter Olsson's birthdate is given as 17 Mar 1802 but I think it's really 14 March 1802 according to the parish records:
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042536_00066
Parents are Olof Olafsson and Johanna Ericsdotter...
In Household Records here Olaf has already died...
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042514_00029
Earlier when Olaf was still alive but no mention of Peter yet...
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042513_00060
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@Clifford Lien @Norm Baker Your research is amazing! I had not even a scratch of any of this or where to find it! I love the confidence I get from having two opinions!
I have entered Peter's parents names in FSTree. Starting with Peter LB42-Y4C, can you verify I've added the places correctly. I'm not quite sure how to read the places where the links take me. Please advise.
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@Norm Baker @Clifford Lien I looked at your screenshot image posted above. I understand the names Beata Mungsdotter and Emanuel Peterson. Is the name after mother and before him Olaus or something else? How do I read the dates and numbers are on their same lines? Will you please explain how it reads from right to left?😊 I am so excited to get these entered into FST!
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@Clifford Lien I can't open this up.
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To begin with, change Bajotta Olson (LB42-T4R) to Beata Magnusdotter. You can put Bajotta Olson in as an Alternate Name (Other Information>Add Information>Alternate Name).
You could also add siblings for Emanuel from the Household record in the post above (the one that you couldn't get the link to work because it required an account number). This link will work for that image without a subscription: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042525_00056#?c=&m=&s=&cv=55&xywh=2897%2C2079%2C4718%2C2479 .
This is the family (according to the Household record in the link):
Peter Olsson b. 17 March 1802 (no place given so just put "Sweden" until it can be shown where he was born) The note that says "Död" means "Died" and the note "Bräklig" means "Fragile". Also, Clifford posted earlier that the actual birthdate for him is 14 March, so I would put that in, instead. Household records are Secondary Sources for births, marriages, deaths, etc. but birth records are Primary Sources (and usually more accurate), so use them if there is a discrepancy.
Beata Magnusd(otte)r b. 10 November 1806 Again, no place is given so just put "Sweden".
Son Olaus Pettersson (Petersson) b. 30 September 1835. For birthplace, just put "Sweden".
(Son) Emanuel Pettersson (Petersson) b. 11 September 1844. Birthplace "Sweden".
D(aughter)r Johanna Maria (Petersdotter) b. 25 August 1831. Birthplace "Sweden".
(Daughter) Anna Christina (Petersdotter) b. 8 May 1833. Birthplace "Sweden".
(Daughter) Helena (Petersdotter) b. 1 January 1839. Birthplace "Sweden".
After birth records are found for these folks, you can add a birthplace in for them. It is pretty likely that they are born in this place, but it needs to be proven.
Start with that and then we can do some other things.
I am glad we have been able to help. @Clifford Lien is very good at this research. And I do okay, too 😃
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@Clifford Lien on the third link just above I can't read the third name. What are the years on these last two links?
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Beata Magnusdotter (LB42-T4R) died 14 October 1875 in Torsby, Göteborg och Bohus, Sweden rather than what is currently in FST.
Here is a link to that record (entry #42): https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0027757_00041#?c=&m=&s=&cv=40&xywh=363%2C3250%2C2138%2C1372 .
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@Norm Baker @Clifford Lien I entered the above information. I found what I thing are duplicates to some of the family and merged them. The only birth that was different was daughter Johanna Maria which is one year off 1831 or 1830. Her siblings and parents are the same, minus Emanuel who is not on these new records.
- Please advise on Johanna merging or not and which date to use.
- Will you advise if I did this family correct?
- Do we have enough information to standardize each of this family's birth places? What would the complete standard you recommend?
- I understand the females kept their maiden name after marriage. Sometimes I've seen females have their father's last names then when they get married (and/or move out on their own if they're still single). What is the rule about the females last names before they leave their parents family? (See Johanna's daughter's)
Thank you for all this and thanks for all you may help me with! Family is truly the best treasure!!!😊 ❤️
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On Riksarkivet images the "Title" and source are on the upper left (at least on Chrome for my PC)
Torsby kyrkoarkiv, Husförhörslängder, SE/GLA/13565/A I/1 (1785-1813)
So this is an early Household register for one of the places on Lefstad in Torsby/Thorsby Parish
This particular "Batch" of images/records includes other types of records like births/marriages/deaths and I think the date span of the total bunch of them spans 28 years 1785-1813
I don't know if you can determine what years the household record covers but...
You do know that Peter was born in 1802 and he is not listed with the family.
The first-born daughter of Olof and Johanna is Olena, 1 yr old when the record was made and ages are given for Olof and Johanna (30 and 25 respectively) so if we find the birth of Olena we can figure the year of thi household record.
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OK, now I see there are a whole series of Household records within this "Batch" 1785-1813
Here is a later Household record - the first where I see Peter b. 1802
Olof and Johanna are about half way down the left page (side 60)
I am not sure what the name of the place is, looking into that but it's part of Lefstad I am sure.
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042513_00213
In this record the year of birth was calculated for the family members but you can see from the ages that they were not all entered at the same time. Notice the mention here of Olena the first born but she is crossed out?
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Right Arkivdigital is a subscription archive but the same images are available from the Swedish archives they are just trickier to find. In the above case you know the description of the record
So go to Riksarkivet church records
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/kyrkoarkiv
And search for Torsby...
Click the links to get to the long list of Torsby records...
You are looking for volume C4 Birth records for 1837-1857 and you scroll down to find...
Födelse- och dopböckerSE/GLA/13565/C/41837 – 1857
Click on the Bild link and then use the page navigation at the top center to choose Page 116
(Note that Arkivdigital and Riksarkivet have slightly different page numbering so you get close and choose 115 from the Riksarkivet which is actually the exact page you want for Emanuel)
Here endeth the lesson :-)
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So the place Olof and Johanna are raising their family looks like it was Lyckeberget in earlier records and I think that is the same place as Locketorp in later records. You would have to find local residents of today to be clear about this. I am pretty sure Lyckeberget/Locketorp was part of or "under" Lefstad/Levstad Västra
Google Map Lefstad, Kärna, Sweden and look at the satellite view - lots of places there.
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As I found more records regarding Olof Olofsson I notice that most often Olof was used rather than Olaf. Although spelling was unimportant during Olof's time I think you should change his name to Olof Olofsson and put Olaf Olafsson as an alternate name.
I also found the death record of Cottager Petter Olsson of Lefstad 18 October 1849 in Torsby aged 47 years 7 months
That's your Petter Olofsson so you can add the death and another alternative name (the alternate spellings are only meaningful/helpful when others are searching for "your" ancestor and within FamilySearch the alternative name spelling algorithms are so excellent that a ton of alternate spellings being entered is just messy in my opinion)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042538_00153
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Marriage of Peter Olsson of Locketorp and Beata Magnusdotter looks like from Gloshed? Aged 28 and 22
27 April 1830 in Torsby
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042537_00160
So Beata Magnusdotter born 10 November 1808 in Torsby to Magnus Olofsson and Helen (looks like Pehrsdotter to me?) of Glöskär (christened 13 November)
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042536_00128
Here in the 1785-1813 Household records but note Helena is here recorded as Andersdotter so needs some work but you have birth years so... ( The second family on the right page)
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I see that your question above about Johanna Maria didn't get answered-so here is the answer. Her birth is actually 25 August 1830. The birth record is here: https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/C0042537_00111#?c=&m=&s=&cv=110&xywh=73%2C507%2C3401%2C2182 .
It reads: (Born) 25 (August-see previous page for the month) | (Christened) 27 (August) | Peter Olofsson's and wife Beata Magnusd(otte)r at locketorpet n(amed) Johanna Maria | witness are the rest of the record-sometimes important and sometimes not.
So, I would merge the 2 and use the date 25 August 1830 for the birth. I did check the births for 1831 just to make sure that there wasn't another child born that date (it could happen!) but there wasn't a birth to Peter and Beata then.
This has been a great research problem-thanks for letting us get involved.
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@Norm Baker 1. Are these the people you're referring to here? 2. What about the Birth/Christening Records attached to them?
Johanna Maria Pettersdotter
1830-Deceased
• KHXB-N9Z
Johanna Maria Petersdotter
1831-Deceased
• M2RC-YQP
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Yes, those two are the same person.
When you merge them, all the sources will go with the surviving person. Are you comfortable with merging people in Family Search Tree? The best way to merge these two would be to "Merge by ID" under "Tools" on the right hand side of Johanna Maria Pettersdotter's (KHXB-N9Z) person page.
Then enter Johanna Maria Petersdotter's PID (M2RC-YQP) where it asks for the ID number and merge them. Be sure always to review the people you are merging to be sure the merge is correct.
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@Norm Baker I feel very comfortable merging. Then this is her birthday?
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Yes, her birthdate is 25 August 1830. The place is Locketorpet, Torsby, Göteborg och Bohus, Sweden.
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@Norm Baker Thank you sooo much!
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