Are there any Italian births, deaths and marriage records dating back to 1700s.
I am stuck at 1751 birth of Giovanni Cama born in Staiti, Reggio Calabria which someone else has entered. He married Elisabetta Toscano or spelt Tuscano in some documents. She was also born in Staiti in 1755 and died 1828. I cannot find anything on Giovanni Cama nor their marriage date. I think he may have come from a different town but don't know where to start as the records don't seem to go that far back and I don't know where the entry came from in the first place. Any assistance would be appreciated.
답변들
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Do you have the birth records for their children? Those sometimes give the place of birth of the parents.
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It looks like the documents of Staiti at pre-napoleonic times were moved several times and tracking them may not be easy. Full story here:
https://siusa.archivi.beniculturali.it/cgi-bin/siusa/pagina.pl?TipoPag=cons&Chiave=12645 then click on "espandi"
You may eventually ask the Archivio Diocesano di Locri-Gerace if they have any docs around 1750 from the church of Santa Maria della Vittoria (not listed).
AD Locri-Gerace: Via Caprera, 46 - 89044 Locri (Reggio Calabria) - tel: 0964390729
Hope it helps.
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Write to the church in Staiti, Reggio Calabria
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Thanks for your reply @Paolo Venturini It sounds very complicated. I did get a lot of information about dates on this website http://www.benvanrijswijk.com/fontigenealogiche.htm which does include records from 1700s in Staiti and even earlier but I was unable to find Giovanni Cama 1751 or his son Pasquale 1770. I'm inclined to think that Giovanni came from another town but finding out where would be like searching for a needle in a haystack. Thanks again. Ciao Tina
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Tina, did you already try asking the person who entered the names in FS?
fran@rapetti.com.au
It looks like he had access to some sources, at least regarding Pasquale Cama
SOME CONSIDERATIONS:
Using your link I found the death of Giovanni Cama, who died in Palizzi (S. Anna) on 1795-11-26 at 48 years of age (then born on 1746 or 1747).
http://www.benvanrijswijk.com/indici/palizzidefunti1793-1819.htm
The record lists his wife (Elisabetta Tuscano), but, unfortunatly, not his parents.
Also, despite listing him as "from Staiti", the register of "cresime" do not list any Cama from 1701 to 1771, so, he was probably born elsewere - today the largest number of Cama is in Reggio Calabria.
I also found a death record of Elisabetta Tuscano, who died at 63 in Staiti on 1828-02-24.
http://www.benvanrijswijk.com/indici/staitidefunti1810-1858.htm
Her parents are the same like in FS, however this means she was born in 1765 or 1765, too late for giving birth to Pasquale in 1770.
The "cresima" record of Elisabetta in 1765 (same parents) dates her birth at aroud 1753, so, there was maybe a mistake in recording her death.
http://www.benvanrijswijk.com/indici/staiticresime1702-1771.htm
As she was from Staiti, the marriage with Giovanni Cama must have happened there, so, maybe she married after 1772, as records in the website stop at that date.
Those record also seem to be kept at Brancaleone - S.M. Annunziata, so this is where you may want to ask.
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PS: I can confirm that Elisabetta Tuscano was born in 1754 or 1755 - she died at 73 years and not at 63 - it was a transcription mistake!
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Oh my goodness @Paolo Venturini , thank you so much for all the time you have devoted to the information. Yes, I did write to Fran Rapetti before but not for Pasquale Cama. I will try to find out where she obtained that information.
The information of a Giovanni Cama who died in Palizzi (S.Anna) is very interesting. I am looking forward to clicking in that link you gave me.
This is the birth information I found for Elisabetta Tuscano https://www.archiviodiocesanoreggiobova.it/en/photo_details/1676/268802/mrvtsttib17551773p015/view/
definitely born in 1755 and this is the death record I found: http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it/v/Archivio+di+Stato+di+Reggio+Calabria/Stato+civile+della+restaurazione/Staiti/Morti/1828/007693954_01352.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=0
I agree with you that Giovanni must be from another town. The marriage information is also a mystery. I will not give up. I have been working on my direct ancestors for about 20 years now and I feel a real connection to them. I travelled from Australia to Italy last year and visited Staiti, Reggio Calabria even though I do not have any relatives there. I just needed to walk the streets of my ancestors. It was a real thrill and very emotional.
Many thanks again. You don't know how much I appreciate it.
Sincere regards
Tina
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My pleasure!
Thankyou for making me discover this fantastic "docs coffer" for Reggio Calabria!
If you need further help don't esitate to ask .
Ciao
Paolo Venturini - Milano
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Grazie Paolo.
Your research gave me a death date for Giovanni Cama which I did not have before. I have written to fran frapetti to see if she can provide me with the birth details for Giovanni as well as his son Pasquale. I think that will be my only chance to obtain information. Other than that it would be impossible I think. The Italian records are fantastic but I think that the records for 1700s are too difficult to find because there are so many missing.
Have a nice evening.
Ciao
Tina
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Hi Tina,
because of the lockdown in Milan due to the coronavirus, I have time to kill, so I did cross some data from the records of the Reggio Calabria province, and came to this conclusion:
Your Giovanni Cama (1746-1795) could have been the grandson of "capitano" Silvestro Sala (ab 1674- ab 1755) from Reggio.
On May 4, 1704 Silvestro Cama married by proxy a Feliciana Tuscano in Staiti:
"Sposo ex Reggio. Per capitano Silvestro Cama è presente Federico Toscano con procura di notaio Giuseppe Caracciolo 24-4-1704"
http://www.benvanrijswijk.com/indici/staitimatrimoni1700-1772.htm
Now, you have been there - I didn't - Staiti doesn't look like a place you "pass by" casually - this mean that there was some sort of relationship between the Tuscano and the Cama.
Elisabetta Tuscano and Giovanni Cama, who married around 1775 could have then been cousins.
Silvestro and Felicia(na) then moved to Reggio where they had several children - so far I found 5 daughters and one son, Gennaro (1724-1789), who could potentally be the father of your Giovanni Cama.
A brief mention of Silvestro Cama can be found in this book (page 97) in a long and complicated story of a fraud for assigning nobilty titles to people that didn't deserve them. The story developed between 1730 and 1748 and Silvano was actually between those who opposed the fraudsters!
https://ia801207.us.archive.org/10/items/bub_gb_XMQlSLmZgBIC/bub_gb_XMQlSLmZgBIC.pdf
In the same book you will find that several of the "sindaci" of Reggio came from the Cama family. I counted 5, the first in 1541.
Here is a more readeable list: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindaci_di_Reggio_Calabria
Ciao
Paolo
PS: if you send me your email address, I can provide you with the xcel file where I collected my thoughts. mine is:
psventur@tiscali.it
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Paolo, paolo, paolo I don't want to say that the lockdown is a good thing because it definitely isn't but something good has come from it for me. I thought I had reached a dead end with my CAMA research but you have given me hope. I can't contain my excitement from the information you have researched which I am inclined to agree with. I had previously come across Capitano Silvestro Cama from Reggio Calabria but didn't expect any link but with the Tuscano connection from Staiti, it is highly likely that you have come to the correct conclusion. Right now with the information you have provided I feel like one of those celebrities on TV who have their ancestry research by the professional researchers and they find interesting stories and relationships 🙈 You are right that Staiti isn't a town you would pass.
With your information about Capitano Silvestro Cama I found the following paragraph written on the website of Cattedrale di Reggio Calabria:
Nello entrare dalla porta maggiore a man destra vi è nella nave laterale dalla parte di mezzodì nel primo piano l'altare o Cappella della Resurrezione di Nostro Signore; la Cappella di S. Giuseppe patronata della famiglia Piconiero; siegue la porta; la Cappella del SS. Crocefisso patronata della famiglia Cama del Capitan Silvestro; e la Sagrestia.
How about that 💃 💃 💃 . I am hoping that there might be a photo of il Capitano on some website or even in the Italian Naval documents. The story of the fraud - wow, what a great find. I might need to get it translated at some point so that I can fully understand it but I will keep it with my records. Thank you so much.
I found Silvestro's birth entry as follows:
Data bat. (nasc.) Padre Madre Battezzato (a) Padrino/Madrina e particolarità
1678-01-01 Cama, Giuseppe D’Agostino, Bennardina Cama, Silvestro Simone Giacomo Ferranti, Simone fu Francesco e Giovanna Manti.
You mentioned Silvestro and Feliciana had 5 daughters and a son Gennaro. I could only find a son Francesco as follows:
Data bat. (nasc.) Padre Madre Battezzato (a) Padrino/Madrina e particolarità
1712-02-09 (09) Cama, Silvestro Toscano, Feliciana Cama. Francesco Maria Domenico Cama, Giovanni fu Giuseppe e fu Bernardina D’Agostino.
and daughter Bernadina Cama marriage entry:
Data Sposo Sposa Genitori sposo Genitori sposa
1731-05-03 Morisano, Giovanni Cama, Bernardina Morisano, Giuseppe fu Mora, Caterina Cama, Silvestro Toscano, Feliciana
Testimoni: Scafaria, Antonino fi Francesco e francesca Alberino par. S.Giorgio extra. Lucisano, Antonino di Gaetano e Domenica De Simone par. S.M. d’Itria.
In relation to the sindaci of Reggio Calabria - there seem to be quite a few and I'm sure are related in some way but who knows how. Thank you so much for that too.
Paolo I thank you once again for all your assistance and if there are any documents you would like to email to me, my email address is: tinamur14@gmail.com
Have a nice day.
Sincere regards
Tina Cama Murolo
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