Running in Circles
I hope someone can provide direction or insight in how to proceed in finding relatives. I have tested with all top dna companies and used various dna services to find as much information as possible about family. But I seem to be running in circles on finding paternal side (Italian).
I was wondering if there is a service or help from someone more knowledgeable in dna research (using 3rd and 4th cousins) to find answers. I fear that my matches will be in Italy and not USA, since I am getting 95% from maternal side. Italy does not seem to do dna testing (probably already know family there).
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Does someone in our Adoption Research Group know more about DNA research to help @Simon7 ?? My experience is limited using only FamilyTreeDNA.
Also, is there someone in our group who has experience in searching for Italian Records?
Thank you!
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@Simon7 What do you know about your paternal Italian relatives? If you have a name and a comune (name of town), there are many civil registration records available on FamilySearch. We can help you learn how to search them.
As for DNA, have you found any Italian surname matches—or a match that links to an Italian surname?
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DNA matches are all distant. I need a close match to figure anything out. Too complicated for me to research distant cousins to get answers. Italian dna matches distant and no service seems to be good there,
I did try to look at family trees, locations, etc when possible to see if anything was obvious. It will take someone much smarter in all of this to figure anything out. That is why I posted the question to see if there is any resources available in cases like this one. I have searched for so long and without results that I am about to give up.
I have followed so many false leads, outright lies, etc that it all just seems impossible. I have hoped for years that dna testing would provide answers. It seems Italians to busy drinking wine and eating pizza to be bothered with dna testing.
PS. I would be happy to work with anyone and give them names etc if it would help.
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@Simon7 Is the person you are looking for an American of Italian descent or someone born in Italy who never came to the U.S.? Without a close DNA match you will need to find the common ancestor from among your third and fourth cousins and then try to determine which descendant is your line. In other words, it will be a combined effort of genealogical and genetic research. It sounds like you have separated out your maternal matches already. That would be the first step. From what is left, do you see the same place names popping up?
DNA is not really my area of expertise, but I am an experienced Italian researcher if you have some clues to get started. Don't give up. There are people and tools available to help you sort out the DNA. I have not used DNA Painter but you might want to look into it. Here is a link to their presentations at RootsTech as well as other DNA videos that might be helpful: RootsTech On Demand Library
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I am unsure on his birth place. I wish I could answer with confidence but I have not been able to get that far in my research. I know he was born est. 1941 or so based on some information. An older half sister who has passed away told me he was around a lot but she could not remember names (she was only 9 or 10 at the time). Mom lived in Las Vegas.
No one left alive to help, so that is why I was relying on dna matches.
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I went back to calculate sister age. She would have been 8 or just turned 9. A lifetime ago, so she could remember a few things before she passed away 26 yrs ago.
I have done a little research on my 4th cousins where possible to try to identify locations and names that repeat. The information is available for some but not all, so it doesn't give a complete picture or clear answers. I further narrowed the list to 4th cousins where all four grandparents were from Italy (where possible). Names, locations, etc. to see if overlapping or matching information. I have some information but I am unsure how to use it to move forward.
My investigations of 4th cousins is very limited. I am not sure how to properly investigate or research. Detailed information is extremely difficult to get. Most people do not want to communicate with you unless you are a close family match. And being a close match is no guarantee they will communicate with you.
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From my experience MyHeritage, based out of Israel, is the best database for finding European relatives. However, if few relatives have tested, or they don't have many people in their trees, then it will not be of much help. My father-in-law's parents were of Swiss ancestry. My wife and her sisters have their DNA results in MyHeritage, and have matches that live in Switzerland, but few of them have trees. Good luck.
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Thank you for responding Jeffrey. I have results at MyHeritage. Unfortunately, so far the Italian relatives are not close enough to provide any clear answers to me. I hold out hope that someday soon a close relative will test with one of the top dna companies. Or a company will start selling in Italy that everyone there tests with…
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Wrong place…
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I have a question related to finding ancestor records. I have read that the website www.antenati-italiani.org is a good resource to use. Everytime I try to login and use it…it locks up, crashes, or kicks me out. Is there a secret to using this website? Is it a good resource or is there a better one (other than familysearch and ancestry)? There seems to be a lot of records missing and/or not available.
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@Simon7 I am responding here to questions sent in private message so all can learn.
The records for Selva di Cadore are not complete online and none of them are indexed so they cannot be found searching by name in a search box. In FamilySearch, there are church records for 1806 to 1815. You can access these by going to the Catalog and typing in place name box "Selva di Cadore". You search these by date and if you don't know the date you go page by page. For example if you click on Births (Nati) for 1814 you can find the record on image 12 for the birth of Giacomo Pampanin. (I tried to attach the image, but FamilySearch would not allow.) The record is the second one on the page, all handwritten in Italian. It says that the midwife declares that a male child with the name Giacomo Antonio was born to Libero Pampanin (son of Giacomo) and his wife Domenica Bonifacio (daughter of Pietro Antonio), living in Selva. I know this is correct as I found his parents names on death record in 1879, and his wife (on death record) matches mother on Veronica's marriage record, also in 1879. All of these can be found on Ancestry (see the following paragraph).
Ancestry has most births, marriages and deaths for this town, but none from before 1874. These can be accessed from this database, but you must have Ancestry subscription or be on a computer at a FamilySearch Center. Again, these records are not indexed and must be searched the same way. I cannot share images, but I can feed you information, as I have been doing.
I hope this clarifies how to access the records online.
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Thank you for finding this information. I don't think I would have ever found it. Not sure I can even with your instructions. I hope to go to the FamilySearch center soon (open only a few hours week) and do further research. Maybe someone there can help me follow your instructions to find information.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and being helpful. Your kindness and encouragement has meant a lot.
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I wanted to share this great chart from FamilySearch that I have found very useful over the past 6 months or so. I think it is a great resource to help clarify relationships from testing. It lays things out visually so you can make sense of things.
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Thanks Jordan.
A lot of times the person I match to has some family history where I have none. So I put the person in the "You" box and then look to see what boxes I might fit into. Gives me an idea of where or who to look for in my search. One more thing, I also add age of the matched person (if available) to the equation to help clarify things.
So if you can find a family tree of the matched person, you can fill in some of the boxes. Then hopefully narrow your search accordingly. Best of luck to everyone.
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I don't know why people think the Antenati portal website for Italian genealogy research is good. Every name I search for is not found. In fact I have never found a single name using this website. I can scroll through a few archives like a blind squirrel looking for an acorn, but looking for specific names has been a waste of time.
Ancestry and FamilySearch have not been much better for me. I am not sure a decent resource exists anywhere which is frustrating. If researching USA or UK, the information is available. But Italy seems out of reach or unavailable. Has anyone out there been successful researching Italian genealogy? If so, how…???
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I don't know of any websites with Italian records INDEXED. Family Search has one of the best collections but only a small percentage have been indexed to make them searchable by name. To see what records are available—
From the Homepage click on Search and then on Records. From the Historical Records home page, click on "Browse all Collections" in the bottom left corner. Then type "Italy" into the Collection title search box. As you scan the results, anything that has a number in the Records column has been indexed and can be searched by name. If instead of a number it says "Browse Images", the records have not been indexed but you can still search them by date. Some have handwritten indexes. (I tried to attach snapshots with arrows and directions for you to follow, but for some reason FamilySearch won't let me attach them. I don't know why, but I plan to find out!)
Unfortunately, if you scroll to find records for Belluno, Veneto there are only the 1806 to 1815 Catholic Church records that I referenced previously. There are no civil registration records, but they can be accessed on Ancestry with a subscription. 😕
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Thank you. I will try again. I must not be doing something right because I am not getting results at all. I found the 1806 to 1815 records and did scroll through some of them. And I have tried to search by name on all sites but I am not getting anywhere. Perhaps it is just me. I hope others don't struggle as much as I have trying to find a few records.
Thanks again for providing simple instructions for me.
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I was able to see the some of the 1806 - 1815 records on the Antenati site yesterday, but the FamilySearch site lets me find record set to browse and then pops up message to go to FamilySearch center to view. Just an FYI that these records are not available for the normal user to see on FamilySearch.
I tried searching Ancestry at the FamilySearch center a few days ago. I did not find any of the names but perhaps I am not doing something right. I did not try to browse results while at the center.
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@Simon7 Sorry, I didn't realize these records were restricted. 😕 Not to worry, the records you need are the ones found on Ancestry. If you plan another trip to the FamilySearch Center or if you get an Ancestry subscription let me know so I can help you find them. I recently learned that the ability to take a screenshot and share it in this discussion is not available right now. FamilySearch is working to fix it. 🙂
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