Birth record for my Aunt
Hi everyone,
I'm just trying to find the date of birth for my aunt who died as a baby. Unfortunately all family who knew her have passed away. I wanted to find out if she'd been christened too.
Her name was Elizabeth T Brennan. I think she was born in Limerick in March 1941. My Nan was called Christina Brennan (nee Keyes).
Elizabeth died in Limerick of Tetanus in September 1942.
I wasn't sure who to contact to find out more. I found her on some records that she was born from January - March 1941 but not a precise date.
Thank you in advance
Gemma
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Good morning @Gemma6396 If you know the Church your family attended in the 1930s-1940s, I would try contacting that church. In general, such records are too recent to be online.
Best of luck with your search.
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Hello @Gemma6396
I had a look to see if I could find out any information for you about your aunt Elizabeth Brennan.
There is quite a lot of information available about her death, however, there is less about her birth due to the Irish 100 year privacy rule, which means that her birth records would not be publicly available until 2041.
I assume you do have all the information about her death, but just in case you don't, you may find the following of value...
She died on 2nd of September 1942 in Barringtons Hospital in Limerick City. The hospital still exists today. Her death record has been published online and can be viewed or downloaded without cost... 4246350.pdf (irishgenealogy.ie)
She is buried in Mount St. Lawrence Cemetery in Limerick City at grave location 7Wc, which can be read as Latitude 7, Longitude W (subdivision C).
The cemetery Burial Ground Register (Book 3 - 1935 to 1961) shows the record of her burial as the eleventh entry on page 100.... Book+3+Oct+1935+To+Jul+1961.pdf (amazonaws.com)
A map of the cemetery can be found here... Mount+St+Laurence+MAPSWatermarked.pdf
As @Áine Ní Donnghaile advised, your best source for relatively recent birth information likely is the church her family attended. You did say one very interesting word in your question. You said that you were interested in finding out if your aunt had been "christened". Were the family Protestant? Christening is a term used almost exclusively in Protestant churches. The approximately similar sacrament for Catholics is always described as "Baptism". For Catholics, within the sacrament of Baptism a number of things are achieved, one of which is Christening.
So, if the family were indeed protestant, that would place them in a group that made up approximately only 5% of the Limerick city population. That may greatly simplify your search for the correct church to approach.
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I also forgot to mention that your aunt does already have a Find-A-Grave memorial....
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@John Curran said, in the middle of an otherwise excellent reply:
" ... Christening is a term used almost exclusively in Protestant churches. The approximately similar sacrament for Catholics is always described as "Baptism". ... "
Please don't start using minor differences in terminology as evidence. The Church of England (a Protestant church) has (three) Orders of Service for Baptism. I've seen registers that mix and match the same two words on the same page. It may very well be that there was once a difference in the usage of those two words but it's long since been lost for all practical purposes.
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Thank you, @Adrian Bruce1. I was trying to formulate a similar comment. With all the recent conversations we have had regarding baptism/christening in the FSFT, I was taken aback to see the remark.
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@Adrian Bruce1 Thank you for highlighting this. It brings up some very relevant and often misunderstood aspects.
Having reviewed my original wording, I do believe the wording is correct and remains what I wanted to say.
You are also correct in what you say regarding the mixing of the terms Baptism and Christening for those of a Protestant tradition (such as the CoE), or when the terms are used more informally in secular society. However, I would disagree with you regarding their use within the Catholic tradition.
Perhaps to try and explain further…..
From a Catholic perspective, there is a clear difference between Christening and Baptism. These are two often related, but quite distinct things.
Christening is the naming the person for Christ, and Baptism is the rebirth of the person, absolving them from both original sin and any subsequent sin.
Within the Catholic tradition, Baptism is considered one of the requirements for Salvation, thus is performed at the earliest possible date. As Baptism requires the person to make a commitment for Christ, some of the Protestant traditions delay Baptism until the person is mature enough to make a conscious personal decision for Christ, thus in these cases Christening may be performed on an infant, while Baptism happens many years subsequently.
In the Catholic tradition, Baptism is one of the seven Sacraments. Thus, it is the date of the administering of the "Sacrament of Baptism" that is recorded in the Catholic Baptismal register. The Sacrament of Baptism contains a number of distinct steps, one of which is Baptism, another of which is Christening. Thus, the two separate processes of Christening and Baptism are always both performed within the Catholic "Sacrament of Baptism".
A Protestant church will rightly describe that initial service with the infant as either Baptism or Christening, as it can be either, or both. But, within the Catholic tradition, that initial service is always described as Baptism, as it is the administering of the "Sacrament of Baptism".
Within the Irish context, a Catholic will always use the term Baptism of the child. Many Protestant churches will also use the term Baptism, others will use the term Christening, as in fact it could be either. Thus, to me, in the Irish context, using the term "Christening" of the child, would indicate that the child is from a Protestant tradition. I have never heard a Catholic use the term Christening for the Catholic Sacrament of Baptism.
This is my understanding. I hope that clarifies my logic.
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@John Curran - thank you for that - and congratulations in that you are the first person to ever meet my (in this case unspoken) challenge to define the difference between christening and baptism. At least, the difference in the context of Roman Catholicism.
I would accept your logic that, at least in the Irish context, a Roman Catholic wouldn't use the term "Christening".
"From a Catholic perspective, there is a clear difference between Christening and Baptism. These are two often related, but quite distinct things.
Christening is the naming the person for Christ, and Baptism is the rebirth of the person, absolving them from both original sin and any subsequent sin. ... "
Looking at my Order of Service for the Publick Baptism of Infants (yes, that is the spelling of Public!) in the Church of England Book of Common Prayer, it is probably no surprise that there is a big chunk that maps over from the Baptism step, as you describe it. It would take someone with a better knowledge of theology than myself to map the Christening step with certainty but there is a clear step of naming in the CofE service.
A Protestant church will rightly describe that initial service with the infant as either Baptism or Christening, as it can be either, or both.
As far as Christian denominations in the British Isles go, perhaps the major one to use "adult" baptism is the Baptist church. (Apologies to those I have missed). So far as I can see, their registers (may?) include the later baptism but the records for initial events with infants are births, not christenings or namings. There may be services in other churches systematically described as Christenings but I've not found them yet. (Note that events outside the English language sphere appear not to distinguish between baptisms and christenings - German, I understand, just has the word "Taufe")
As far as the Church of England goes, all three orders of service are designated as "Baptisms" and definitely include the baptism step. I, therefore, believe that the situation replicates that within the Roman Catholic church - one service ("Baptism"), and no need to use the term "Christening" because the service of (infant) Baptism always includes both elements. And yet, muddled in our not untypical Anglican fashion, we do use both words in everyday speech. I even, as I said, see both terms in CofE registers, but cannot figure out any certain justification, only speculate.
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