Transcription
I would appreciate it if someone could help me with some of the names and words in this death record. I have put a ? mark after them. Please feel free to add any corrections to my transcription which is below. It is number 17.
17.
Caroline Isabelle von Bibre, hies(ige) Stifthause?, Tochter des veih.? Ludwig Friedrich Froiheora? von Bibre, Oberforstmeister in Hildburghausen u̅ veih. Rachel Louise geboren von Marschall, Greif? 78Jahre, 1 Monat, 17 Tage alt, starb an Hirnschlag u̅ Hirn?, 9 März Nachmittag 10¾ Uhr in ihrer Stiftswohnung u̅ wurde mit ärztliche Erlaubnis 11 März Nachmittag 4 Uhr mit Grelrede? still beerdigt. Sie war zu Hildburghausen 1778, 21 Januar geboren.
From Meyers Gazetteer, Hildburghausen:
Extra Desc a/d Werra
Lvl I Sa. -M.
Kr Hildburghausen [self]
LG Meiningen
Thank you, Phil Nelson
의견
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@NelsonPhilipFord1 That image concerns the entries no. 10 to 14?
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Hi Phil,
Please post the image which includes record no. 17.
Best to you, Robert Seal_1
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I apologize. I copied the wrong side.
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@NelsonPhilipFord1
My edits to your transcription in bold:
Caroline Isabelle von Bibra, hies(ige) Stiftsdame, Tochter des weil. Ludwig Friedrich Freiherrn von Bibra, Oberforstmeister in Hildburghausen u̅ der weil. Rachel Louise geboren von Marschall Greif, 78 Jahre, 1 Monat, 17 Tage alt, starb an Hirnschlag u̅ Hirnlähmung, 9 März Vormittag 10¾ Uhr in ihrer Stiftswohnung u̅ wurde mit ärztliche Erlaubnis 11 März Nachmittag 4 Uhr mit Grabrede pp. still beerdigt. Sie war zu Hildburghausen 1778, 21 Januar geboren.
Comment: Marschall (genannt) Greiff is a noble family (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marschall_genannt_Greiff)
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Ulrich,
Thank you very much. I thought this was not the usual death notice. Just to be clear, Freiherr is a title not part of his name and weil. is short for weiland or deceased. Would her mother's name include Marschall and Greif(f)? I understand Grabrede, what is pp? In Thode's book pp means "pages". In other records,when Robert Seal saw those letters or symbols like seen here after Grabrede, he thought it might mean "the above mentioned". Then there was only one of the little y-like symbols.
Again, thank you for your insightful help.
Phil
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Robert Seal's comment: I am not familiar with this symbol and it might be a peculiarity of this particular scribe. Note that this symbol is also used in the same place in record no. 20 immediately above. The way it appears to be used in both records is to refer back to the previously named husband, as in: the aforementioned Schmuck. The German word "vorgenannten" translates as "aforementioned" and in record 21 one could argue that it was a quickly written "v". But in record 20, it is a much more stylized symbol that does look like a "y".
Here are a couple of other records with those letters or symbols. The ones mentioned above, the the record at the bottom and # 16 in the first record below.
Phil
https://us.v-cdn.net/6032564/uploads/GB5EWBKHYM87/kb-wasungen-d-1850-1875-020.jpg
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Phil,
you are right that "Freiherr" is a title (of nobility), approximately "Baron", and "weil[and] means deceased.
Yes, the mother of Caroline Isabelle would have had the (maiden) name "von Marschall gen. Greiff" (gen. = genannt = "called"); it is a family of nobility as is "von Bibra" (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibra_(Adelsgeschlecht)). Caroline Isabelle was apparently unmarried and lived in a "Damenstift" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stift#Endowment_for_unmarried_Protestant_women).
Regarding the "pp" I was maybe a bit too quick. I thought of the term "etc pp" (https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/etc._pp.) which means "and so on". So I thought it might mean "with a sermon and so on", i.e., with the usual rites for a funeral; but this is just a guess.
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Ulrich,
Thank you. I appreciate the research on the families and your thoughts on the"pp".
Phil
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