Please translate the name of the place of birth written in this 1871 Missouri will.
Johannes Samuel Spindler born about 1799 in ??Maysfrach?? Canton Basel, Switzerland, Europe.
최고의 답변
-
Maysprach - today spelled Maisprach - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maisprach.
How sure are you about the year of birth? Samuel will likely make the family catholic - they would have attended church in Gelterkinden (see https://memory.bl.ch/familienforschung/kirchenbuecher/maisprach) ... but at first sight I haven't found a Samuel Spindler there 1798/1800 ... you may want to have a more careful look ... or try Buus for a reformed baptism.
0 -
Well - we have a problem with the surname: the copy of the will is a bit difficult to read with confidence - as you wrote Spindler I just took this for granted. The marriage entry 18.08.1823 in Buus, however, clearly writes
Johannes Spinnler, Hans Jakobs von Maisprach, nat 1799.1.3. mit
Jungfrau Katharina Schaub, Martins selig von dar(?), nat 1798.7.24.
Is the spelleing Spindler confirmed by other documents?
If it is, it could be either an "anglicized" spelling - or its another family.
0 -
"My guess is that it is "anglicized"; or that the local "German accent" took over."
Could well be: Spinnler is an "old" Swiss surname - but there are also several Spindler lines, both originally from Germany, the first gaining citizenship of Basel in 1871.
What confuses me right now ist the "Johannes Samuel Spindler": where does this name show up? Keep in mind that in German speaking regions for people with two given names, the second one (the "middle name") is the important one. At least in his home region a Johannes Samuel Spindler would never call himself Johannes Spindler (if only a single given name is to be used), but Samuel Spindler.
BTW - you mention findagrave: doe you have death dates for Johann Spindler and Katharina Schaub?
0 -
"MyHeritage.com has Johannes' death date as 31 March 1871; and Katharina's death date as 5 September 1872; both in Berger, Franklin County, Missouri."
If husband and wife are both buried in the same city, this would be an indication that the marriage entry discussed above is documenting the correct couple. In this case the entry 03/06.01.1799 in Buus is the husband: both in his baptismal entry and marriage entry just "Johannes" … forget about the Samuel; if he ever used that name it would be a later "invention".
"I have the film numbers for the Buus church records; however they are only accessible at a Family History Library. I will need to make an appointment there."
No - not necessary! As you can see from the two links I have provided, (almost) all records from Basel Landschaft can be viewed freely from the State Archive site.
0 -
The resolution is too low to read the last two lines with any confidence - but sufficient to say that there is no connection whatsoever with your Spinnler family.
Georg Jakob, born 23.06.1840 died 02.08.1840; he was illegitimate ("spurius").
Mother was Regina Catharina, daughter of Johann Jakob Spindler, citizen and shepherd from here (= Tamm?).
Vater was Jakob Rinken(??) … unmarried farmer from …..
0 -
So - what next 😉?
According to the "Register of Swiss Surnames" Spinnler have been citizens (since before 1800) of Frenkendorf, Liestal and Seltisberg (all Basel Landschaft). Maisprach is not mentioned. There are two possibilities: your line either never acquired citizenship of Maisprach (they just lived there) - or the line became extinct there (e.g. all emigrated to America). Attached is a map indicating these 4 locations.
On https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=19717 there is already a discussion on Spinnler of Seltisberg - with data from the 16th century … too early to connect to your data (yet) - and we cannot say if your line came originally from Seltisberg.
I would therefore recommend you start a new discussion on https://www.geneal-forum.com/ for "Sinnler in Maisprach BL" - you have to be registered for that (which is free and without any obligation); English is fine on the forum. Describe what you know so far about the emigrant's family (children and ancestors); we usually do not publish info on persons born after 1900. You might be lucky and someone sees a connection to his own data - or just has some advice how to continue your research.
0
답변들
-
Thank you much for the correct name of this town!
The 1799 birth year is only an approximate; his name on one of the documents was "Johannes Samuel Spindler"; on this Will he signs as "John Spindler". The Baptism of one of their children was in Buus, Basel-Landschaft, Switzerland. I will check in Buus for additional records. Thank you for the links you have provided. Much appreciated!
0 -
"The Baptism of one of their children was in Buus, ..."
So what's his wife's (the child mother's) name?
0 -
I am just beginning to research this family; so I am not very familiar with them. The Will I found and Findagrave have given me a bit of information. In Familysearch his wife's name is Katharina/Catharine Schaub (KJCP-7D7); however it seems Johannes Samuel Spindler is mixed with information of Johann Jakob Spindler. I am trying to distinguish the differences. Johann Jakob does not sound correct - his information is from Tamm, Württemburg.
Familysearch has Katharine born 8 July 1798 in Maysprach, Switzerland; and died 5 September 1872 in Berger, Franklin, Missouri, United States. Familysearch has their marriage as 18 August 1823, in Buus, Basel-Landschaft, Switzerland. Berger, Franklin, Missouri, is the correct place they lived in the United States; and 1823 matches with the years of the children's births. I will check the records of Buus; that town was mentioned twice now.
Thank you much.
0 -
The US census reports, Findagrave, and the family records have the spelling as "Spindler". I have included a photo of the English translation of John's Will. My guess is that it is "anglicized"; or that the local "German accent" took over. They have 8 children. I will check the Buus records for each of the children. Thank you again for this marriage link.
0 -
The "Samuel" part of the name shows up in "MyHeritage.com" entries (with no sources); and also in a few of the children's death records as their father "Samuel". Neither of these is reliable. I have noticed in other ancestors the use of the second name as the important one.
Most of the children's "translated" birth records show a form of John - Joh or Johannes or Johann. I will look for original birth records from Buus. The Johannes Spinnler from their marriage record is the most likely; and changing to John Spindler in Missouri. Five of the children's "translated" birth records show either "Spinler" or "Spinnler" as the father's surname. However in Familysearch each person in the family is recorded "Spindler".
MyHeritage.com has Johannes' death date as 31 March 1871; and Katharina's death date as 5 September 1872; both in Berger, Franklin County, Missouri (again with no sources); however they are not listed in Findagrave. I'm sure they are buried near Berger in Franklin County, I just don't know exactly where. Only the children are listed in Findagrave. It mentions the family immigrated in 1844.
I have the film numbers for the Buus church records; however they are only accessible at a Family History Library. I will need to make an appointment there.
Thank you again for your assistance.
0 -
Thank you for your confirmation of this couple; and his first name as Johannes. Much appreciated. I will drop the "Samuel".
Thank you immensely for this "State Archive site" link; for both of the links! I can focus on research much better at home than the Library.
Gratefully.
0 -
WSeelentag;
I just looked at Katharina Schaub's birth record on the page before Johannes'. It looks as if the birth entry is 26 July 1798 for her birth and 24 July 1798 for her baptism; which is not possible. Am I not reading this correctly?
Her father is Martin Schaub of Maysprach and mother is Katharina Schneider?
0 -
"... entry is 26 July 1798 for her birth and 24 July 1798 for her baptism" ... a very unusual sequence, indeed 😁 ... but you read this correctly: the pastor must have mixed up the dates. The marriage entry stated "Katharina Schaub ... nat 1798.7.24." with nat(a) = born. So this would confirm born 24th and consequently baptised 26th.
"... mother is Katharina Schneider?": correct. If you look at the first entry on this page, the mother is Elisabeth Scholer ... same "Sch".
BTW - here the child is given as A(nna) Cathrina - with Anna being dropped when only a single given name was noted ... compare with "Johannes Samuel".
0 -
I was hoping that the birth and baptism days were mixed. Thank you for this confirmation.
Yes I can see the "Anna" was dropped. This matches the pattern.
I was able to complete the search for each of the children's birth and baptism records; and the death of the last child. Each of these match the place and time for this family. Very grateful for the links you shared.
Familysearch has one child in this family that doesn't look like he belongs and he isn't in the Maysprach/Buus records. He is recorded as "George Jakob Spindler (GMN8-BVB)". The source listed is:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQT-GS2S-M?cc=3015626
film 101831946; image 546 of 1142; birth # 25
born 23 June 1840; baptized 26 June 1840; died 2 August 1840; however this all happened in "Tamm, Ludwigsburg, Württemberg"? I really think he belongs to a different family. Would you read the script under the parents names please?
0 -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQT-GS2S-M?cc=3015626
film 101831946; image 546 of 1142; birth # 25
Cannot view that film - please, attach a copy if I am expected to check.
0 -
So sorry; I thought you had access to this film; I will attach.
I have corrected the parents in the family I requested; Johannes Spinnler and A. Katharina Schaub; and I am working on entering the children with the links you have provided. All of these and the grandparents are from Maysprach.
I researched the child who did not seem to belong to this family, Georg Jakob Spindler of Tamm, Ludwigsburg, Württemberg; searching 6 years after his birth and 6 years before his birth and found no connection of his parents to the family of Maysprach. His birth record has writing below the parent's names. If you would read this please:
0 -
Thank you for this confirmation; I appreciate your assistance with our family in Switzerland.
0 -
Wow; I am impressed with "So-what next?" Thank you for lifting my sights! and for the additional links to explore. My notes have the grandfather of Johannes (1799) as Johannes (1718) born and baptized in Liestal, married in Wintersingen, and died in Maisprach (all with no sources); I have a direction to begin to search for sources. Thank you again.
The records in Switzerland are very well organized.
0