Death Records
I have started transcribing death records from Wasungen in Thuringia from 1850. Could someone please help me with perhaps the first three entries on this page. From that I should be able to learn the format and hopefully get a better grasp on this author's handwriting. If that is too much to ask, just do one entry and maybe someone else will do the others. Also, if someone knows of a website that would help me learn the format that is used, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you. I'm grateful for your help.
Phil Nelson
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Leaving a comment to send to the top of Discussions.
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Hello @NelsonPhilipFord1,
I primarily translate records rather than transcribe records. That said, I will transcribe record no. 2 for you and this should move your request to the top of the queue and then perhaps others could help with several of the other records on this image.
Transcription of record no. 2:
Friedrich Fahner, 1. K[inder] des Samuel Fahner, B[ürger]s u[nd] Schuhm[acherm[ei]sters u[nd] der Caroline Therese, geb[oren] B____? in Meiningen, alt 1 Tag, starb an Schwäche u[nd] Steckfluß 15. Januar Morg[ens] 3½ Uhr und wurde 18. Januar Morg[ens] 9 Uhr still beerdigt. Er war geb[oren] 14 Januar a. c.
Comment: a. c. is a Latin abbreviation which translates as: anno currente = in the current year.
Might I suggest you try transcribing one of the records (perhaps no. 5) and then post your transcription asking the community members for a review and edits/corrections?
I hope this helps you to get started.
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Hi Robert,
Thank you so much! That is very helpful. I'll try to do as you suggested.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
How are you? I want to make sure I understand that you actually mean transcribe as opposed to translate. I'll be happy to review your transcriptions and help you with them.
Best regards, Robert Seal_1
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Hi Robert,
Yes, I am transcribing the records primarily. Mainly I am looking for age, dates, parents and spouse. Out of interest I try to determine the cause of death and other information. I'm trying to learn to read the old script better. I enter the information on an Excel spreadsheet so others looking for their ancestors can use it. I work with Dana Palmer on the records from where her and my wife's ancestors come from, Wasungen/Walldorf in Thuringia. I have a fairly good background in German and I'm trying to improve my ability to transcribe and translate German old records.
Thank you again,
Phil
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Good, then we're on the same page, Phil.
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Hello @NelsonPhilipFord1,
Here is a transcription of record no. 3:
Anna Maria Eichelbrenner, geb[oren] Knoch, Wittwe des Daniel Eichelbrenner, B[ürger]s u[nd] Schlosserm[ei]sters, alt 71 Jahr, 8 Mon[ate], 15 Tage, starb an Brucheinklemmung u[nd] Schlagfluss 31 Jan[uar] Ab[ends] 8½ Uhr in ihrer Wohnung u[nd] wurde 4 Febr[uar] Morg[ens] 8 Uhr still beerdigt. Sie war geb[oren] 1778, 16 Mai, verheirathete sich? 1802, 3 Okt[o]b[e]r mit dem 1829, 1 August verstorbenen Eichelbrenner, mit ____? sie keine Kinder zeugte ihm aber ein unehel[ich] Kind, Maria Katharine Elisabethe, geb[oren] 1800, 19 Nov[ember], + 1820, 2 August, zubrachte. Conf[er] St[erbe] R[egister] 1829 N[ummer] 39.
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Hello Robert,
Thank you. Every time I read a transcription I learn something. Did the child, Maria, die 2 Aug. 1820? I'm not sure what "zubrachte" means here.
Here is my transcription of #5:
Heinrich Gustav Eduard Eckardt, Ju(ng)geselle, 4 K(ind). 3 S(ohn) des Heinrich Wilhelm Eckhardt, _ _ Handelsmannes u(nd) der Frau Margarethe geb. Köhler, alt 21 Jahre, 6 Mon, 6 1/2 Tage, starb an den Folgen der ?Baiguche? 20. Feb Morg: 9 1/2 Uhr u(nd) wurde 23. Feb. Morg: 10 Uhr ?still beerdigt. _ war geb. 1828, 13 August.
Thank you for your help.
Phil
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... mit welchem sie keine Kinder zeugte, ihm aber ein unehel[iches] Kind, ......, zubrachte.
Info on the child is interspersed - omit that to understand the sentence. Also zubrachte (zubringen) is not used in the today usual meaning. In this case it indicates that she brought an illegitimate child into the family.
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Hello @NelsonPhilipFord1,
Re: record no. 3: Yes, Maria Katharine Elisabethe died 2 August 1820. The small cross is a symbol for "died".
You did very well with your transcription of record no. 5:
Heinrich Gustav Eduard Eckardt, Ju(ng)geselle, 4 K(ind). 3 S(ohn) des Heinrich Wilhelm Eckhardt, Bs. [Bürgers] u[nd] Handelsmanns u(nd) der Frau Margarethe geb. Köhler, alt 21 Jahre, 6 Mon, 6 1/2 Tage, starb an den Folgen der h___uche? 20. Feb Morg: 9 1/2 Uhr u(nd) wurde 23. Feb. Morg: 10 Uhr öffentl[ich] beerdigt. Er war geb. 1828, 13 August.
Comment: I, too, am having difficulty interpreting the cause of death.
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Hi Wseelentag,
Thank you. I should have known that about German word order.
Phil
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Robert,
Thank you. Again I pick up a few new abbreviations and words.
Phil
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You're welcome, Phil. Excellent work -- keep it up.
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I took somewhat of a break over the holidays. I did a bit of transcription on my own but if you are willing, I'd like to ask you to correct my transcription on some more entries.
Here is may transcription of # 8 on this page.
Margarethe Christiane Schmisch, 4.K. 4.T. des J. Michael Schmisch, Bs. u Glaser__
u der Maria Elisabethe geb. Ungmacht; alt 24 Jahre 5 Monate 23¾ Tage, starb an Herz-
_ u allgemeinen Maß_ 3 März Nachmitt(a)g 2 Uhr u wurde mit ä. fol. 5
März Nachmitt(a)g 2 Uhr öffentl. beerdigt. Sie war geb. 1825, 7. September.
What does "mit ä. fol." mean? I'm aware that "u" is short for und and "geb" for geboren.
Thank you,
Phil
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Hello Phil,
Margarethe Christiane Schmisch, 4.K. 4.T. des J. Michael Schmisch, Bs. u Glasermstr
u der Maria Elisabethe geb. Ungmacht; alt 24 Jahre 5 Monate 23¾ Tage, starb an Herzer-
weiterung u allgemeinen Wassersucht 3 März Nachmitt(a)g 2 Uhr u wurde mit ä[rztlich] Erl[aubnis] 5
März Nachmitt(a)g 2 Uhr öffentl. beerdigt. Sie war geb. 1825, 7. September.
Your question: What does "mit ä. fol." mean? = mit ä. Erl. = mit ärztlich Erlaubnis = with medical permission.
Comment: If you look in the second line of record no. 6 at the top of this page, you'll find the same phrase but here the abbreviation "ä" is "ärztl." which is recognizable as: arztlich.
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Robert,
Thank you! As you can see I still have some basic problems with transcribing these records, but I'm learning. What is difficult for me is when the scribe writes the same letter two different ways. Also, both the last names were unfamiliar to me. I use this website to try to verify names and spelling: http://www.namenforschung.net/en/dfd/dictionary/list/
Neither one was listed there.
Do you have a resource that you like?
Thanks again,
Phil
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You're welcome, Phil. I thought you did well with the transcription. Surnames and place names are usually the most difficult words to decipher. I don't have any one source for surnames. I typically search for a questionable surname on Ancestry and restrict the search to Germany to determine if the name existed in Germany. Keep up the good work.
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Robert,
Here is another death record. I think the person married twice. There are some abbreviations I'm not familiar with. I frequently have trouble with the last letter in women's names, is it an "a" or an"e"? I think the end of the entry says that the information was verified by checking other records.
Thank you,
Phil
Joh. Michael Döll, Wittwer, Bürger u̅ Büttermeister, alt 78 Jahre, 8 Mon(ate), 21 Tage, starb an Altersschwäche 21. Oktbr Nachmittag 2½ Uhr u̅ wurde 23. Oktbr Nachmittag 4 Uhr mit ä(rztliche). Erl(aubnis). still beerdigt. Er war geb(oren) 1774, 30 Jan, verheir(atete) sich 1797, 7/5 _ _, 1804, 27 April verstorben Eva Margarethe geb(oren) Otto v.h. (?verheiratete) 2. April 1839, 29. Aug. verstorben Christiane Elisabethe geb(oren) Burk, hast _ 1804. 18 Nov. Conf. A.R. 1804 N. 19 u̅ 1839 N. 50.
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Hello Phil,
You did a great job with a difficult record. I am not familiar with some of the abbreviations used in this record. The "v. h." is puzzling and it possibly means: von hier = from here (but I don't know that with certainty). It works in the two places it occurs in this record.
I've made some edits which are shown in bold:
Joh. Michael Döll, Wittwer, Bürger u̅ Büttnermstr, alt 78 Jahre, 8 Mon(ate), 21 Tage, starb an Altersschwäche 21. Oktbr Nachmittag 2½ Uhr u̅ wurde 23. Oktbr Nachmittag 4 Uhr mit ä(rztliche). Erl(aubnis). still beerdigt. Er war geb(oren) 1774, 30 Jan, verheir(atete) sich 1797, 7/5 mit der 1804, 27 April verstorbenen Eva Margarethe geb(oren) Otto v.h. (von hier?), (2) mit der 1839, 29. Nov? verstorbenen Christiane Elisabethe geb(oren) Burkhar(d)t v. h (von hier?), 1804. 18 Nov. Conf[er] St.R. [Sterberegister] 1804 N. 19 u̅ 1839 N. 50.
Comments: The note at the end is saying to see the 1804 death register, entry 19, for the death of the first wife, and to see the 1839 death register, entry 50, for the death of the second wife.
Don't get too hung up on whether it's an "a" or an "e" at the end of feminine names. Either way it's pretty much pronounced the same. What I do is to look how the scribe forms his "a" and "e" in other words in the record and then make my best educated guess.
The construction of the marriage phrases is awkward for an English speaker:
. . . he married on 7 May 1797 with the deceased on 27 April 1804 Eva Margarethe née Otto and (2) with the deceased on 29 Nov? 1839 Christiane Elisabethe née Burkhar(d)t he married on 18 Nov 1804.
The second wife's maiden surname is split over two lines: Burk- har(d)t. See the little equal sign at the bottom of Burk: that indicates a hyphenated word.
Büttnermeister = master cooper.
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Robert,
Thank you again for your help. "von hier" makes more sense. I should have noticed the hyphen equivalent after Burk-. It does almost sounds like he married dead women. Büttner is a new word for me. When I look again I see the "n".
Thanks,
Phil
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You're welcome, Phil.
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Hello Robert,
I have yet another record I'd like to ask your help on. It is number 21 on this page. I made my best guess at both the husband's given names. What is the little symbol between mit and Schmuck in the second to the last line that looks like a little "y" almost below the line?
Thank you. Phil
Susanne Katharine Schmuck geb. Diller, Ehefrau des ?Aurelius ?Augustes Schmuck, Bürgers u̅ Mauergeselles, alt 56 Jahre, 5 Mon(ate) 12 Tage, starb an Brustentzündung 2. Mai Morg(en): 1 Uhr u̅ wurde mit ä(rztliche) Erl(äubnis) 5. Mai Morg(en) 8½ Uhr Still beerdigt. Sie war geb(oren) 1797 21/ 2 verheir(atete) sich 1835, 28. Jun mit (symbol) Schmuck u̅ zeugte mit ihm 2 KK (Kinder) 1. Elisabethe n. (natus) 1836, 5. Jul., 2. Gottlieb n. (natus) 1837, 4/12 † (gestorben) 1838, 28/1.
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Hello Phil,
The husband's second name is: Augustus. Note the three curved marks over the letter "u" in the name.
His first name is more problematic: The name ends with "lius" (note the curved mark over the "u"). But if the name was "Aurelius", there should be a mark over the first "u" as well. I think the name might begin with a "K" or maybe an "R". But I can't come up with any likely names.
I am not familiar with this symbol and it might be a peculiarity of this particular scribe. Note that this symbol is also used in the same place in record no. 20 immediately above. The way it appears to be used in both records is to refer back to the previously named husband, as in: the aforementioned Schmuck. The German word "vorgenannten" translates as "aforementioned" and in record 21 one could argue that it was a quickly written "v". But in record 20, it is a much more stylized symbol that does look like a "y".
The rest of transcription is excellent.
Best regards, Robert
P.S. Here is a link to male names which end with "lius": https://www.babynamespedia.com/names/boy/lius-end
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Hello Robert,
I agree with the interpretation of the symbol. Vorgenannten seems right.
I'll try to see if the name "Aurelius, Kornelius" comes up again. I have found that helpful at times. If it does, I'll let you know. I even made an alphabetized list of family names in these records and have referred to it several times.
Thank you once again,
Phil
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If you look at the K in "Kinder" - could the husband´s first name be "Kornelius"?
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Rachel,
In my note above that is one of the options we are considering.
Thank you. All help is appreciated.
Phil
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lol - seems like we were typing at the same time, our comments are 1 minute apart :)
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You're welcome, Phil, and thanks for your input Rachel.
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Hi Robert,
Here is yet another death record, number 11, the first entry. I had trouble with the names and the cause of death. Also the wife's name is listed first. I believe the child was "unehelich" so the woman is given first. The father's name comes second but I presume they weren't married.
Thank you once again,
Phil
Carl Heinrich Groß, 5.K. 4.S. der E_hea Maria ?Plaul u̅ des Ludwig ?Xylender Groß, Zimmergesellen, (unehelich) alt 4 Mon 9 3/4 Tage starb an ?Cenyulsien u̅ ?fluß 24. Jan. Abends 10 Uhr u̅ ward 28 Jan. Morgens 9 Uhr still beerdigt. Er war geboren 1853, 15. September
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Hello Phil,
Carl Heinrich Groß, 5.K. 4.S. der Efa Maria Plaul u̅ des Ludwig Xylander Groß, Zimmergesellen, (unehelich) alt 4 Mon 9 3/4 Tage starb an Convulsionen u̅ Stickfluß 24. Jan. Abends 10 Uhr u̅ wurde 28 Jan. Morgens 9 Uhr still beerdigt. Er war geboren 1853, 15. September.
Comments: Regarding the mother's first name: It looks as if the scribe first wrote "Eva" and then wrote "f" over the "v" making it "Efa". I did find examples of "Efa" in Germany on Ancestry. "Efa" could be a variant of "Eva".
I agree with you that the mother's surname is "Plaul".
Xylander is a Greek name meaning "forest man".
Medical terms are always difficult to decipher.
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