Another question that needs an answer....
@Helle Schnefeld
I have a dead end - My ancestor Ellen Marie Ludowica Nielsen immigrated to the US in 1900. She lived in New York with her father Frederik Nielsen (born in Denmark) and sister, Bertha Marie Nielsen (born in Virginia in 1887) in 1910. Then she married Harry Sylvester Donovan on nov 18th 1916 in New York. The last I can find about her is the census in 1920 living with Harry. He remarries in 1922 to an Elizabeth Burke. Can anyone help me to figure out what happend to Ellen? Thank you!
@New York @Nordic Countries Genealogy Research @Virginia Genealogy Research
답변들
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I started researching this one yesterday ... I found a few people with matching names but nothing else added up.
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@X24mom X24mom Which matching names did you come across?
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oh Goodness I knew I shoulda saved that.... I think it was Marie or Maria Nielsen and either Harry Sylvester (or Just Harry) with the surname Donovan. The info I found wasn’t flattering in any kind of way and didn’t suggest they were ever married or anything. It was a snippet from some book about immigrants and abuse. I don’t think it was the folks you’re looking for
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If you stumble upon it again I'd like to see it. Her middlename was Marie, so I would like to make sure it wasn't her. Flattering or not, it might be that tiny piece in the puzzle I don't know about. Thank you so much for trying.
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Do you have the 1922 marriage record (or a link to an index) of Harry Sylvester Donovan and his second wife? I don't see it (or her) on his FamilySearch person page (linked). The marriage record might list him as a widower or divorcee.
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I located the 1922 marriage record (image 453 on FHL film #1653421, linked), and it lists Harry as single. This could be either a mistake or mean that the Harry S. Donovan who marries Elizabeth Burke may not be the Harry Sylvester Donovan who married Ellen Marie Ludowica Nielsen. I compared the information from the 1922 marriage record with what is listed in the marriage index for his and Ellen Marie's marriage. Note discrepancies below:
- Birth of Harry S. Donovan:
- in 1916 record, born in Hamden, Connecticut, in around 1888
- in 1922 record, born in Mt. Carmel, [New York,] in around 1894
- Parents of Harry:
- in 1916 record, William Donovan and Elizabeth Downey
- in 1922 record, William Donovan and Elizabeth Lutte
- Other:
- in 1922 record, listed as single (not widowed or divorced); it also lists what number of his marriages this is and states it's marriage number 1
Based off of these discrepancies, it seems the Harry who marries Elizabeth Burke is not your Harry after all.
0 - Birth of Harry S. Donovan:
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I'm still not sure what became of Ellen. But using MyHeritage and confirming with original records, I located several pieces of information about her family, some of which you may not already have. I added much of it to the FamilySearch tree (linked).
This family has a really interesting timeline:
1882 16 Oct, sister Ingeborg born in Denmark (linked)
1884 21 March, Ellen born in Denmark
1887 Ellen and father immigrated
1887 sister Bertha born in VA, USA
1892 sister Bertha baptized in NY, USA
1892 18 Feb, brother Frederik Bernhardt born in Brooklyn, NY
1892 12 May, mother died in Brooklyn, NY (linked)
1892 16 June brother Frederik B. died in Brooklyn, NY (linked)
1892-1900 Ellen, sister Bertha, and father returned to Denmark
1896 sister Ingeborg confirmed in Denmark, fostered by grandfather Eskild Jørgensen (linked); she stays in Denmark; see MyHeritage (linked)
1899 9 Dec, sister Ingeborg marries in Denmark (linked); see also MyHeritage (linked); NOTE: her marriage record proves she is a sister of Ellen by stating she is a daughter of Frederik Nielsen in BROOKLYN, NY, and his wife Marie Jørgensen
1900 3 June, Ellen immigrated again; would’ve just barely missed 1900 census by 2 days
1900 19 Dec, sister Ingeborg has a son, Niels Frederik (linked); this was her third child; the first two were illegitimate twins, who died; see sources and people added (linked)
1901 sister Bertha confirmed in Denmark (linked; record states born in Richmond, VA, in 1887 and baptized in Brooklyn, NY in 1892)
1902 sister Bertha immigrated/returned to USA (linked)
1910 Ellen, sister Bertha, and father in census Manhattan Ward 16, NY, NY (linked)
1916 Ellen married Harry Sylvester Donovan in Manhattan
1918 Ellen naturalized (according to 1920 US Census)
1920 Ellen and husband in Manhattan, West 22nd Street #275, census (linked)
1933 19 Dec, sister Ingeborg marries the 2nd time in Denmark (linked); see also engagement (linked)
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Based off of the accuracy of the other information contained for this family on MyHeritage (as verified with the above sources), there's a chance that Ellen and Harry went to New Jersey, since that is apparently where Ellen's father died in 1921 (linked). When Harry filled out his WWI draft registration card in 1917 (linked), at least, he listed both his wife and his father-in-law as people dependent on (and possibly thus both living with) him, so if Frederik Nielsen was living with them in Manhattan, NY, and IF he died in Hoboken, New Jersey (it's a little iffy, since there is no exact date and I couldn't find a source to back this one up), they may have traveled to New Jersey with him.
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@Charlotte Noelle Champenois
Thank you so much for showing me that it isn't the same Harry - the reseach you've found on MyHeritage is my own research
I ran out of answers on myheritage and tried familysearch and this forum instead. 0 -
@Charlotte Noelle Champenois
I have som old papers stating that my great great great grandfather Frederik Nielsen died in Hoboken in feb 1921. The thing I forgot to mention is that I know where to find Frederik in 1920. This is the really iffy thing. He and Bertha (Ellen's sister) is listed as Edward Nathan and Bertha Nathan here; https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4RV-KWG everything fits except the name and surname. Date of birth, him being a carpenter, she was born in Richmond, Viriginia. But still... no sign of Ellen og Harry Donovan.
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Great! I think I still added a few sources, people, and pieces of information to FamilySearch that were not already on MyHeritage, such as Ellen's sister Ingeborg's twins and her marriage record (showing that she really is Ellen's sister even though she'd stayed in Denmark with her grandfather), so you could look through that if you'd like; but I've got nothing on Ellen after 1920 yet . . .
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That is very interesting! If it's really them, which it might be since all the other information matches like you said (including the unusual Denmark and VA combination and the 1887 immigration year), then a neighbor who really didn't know them well must've provided the information--or, perhaps since they are listed as renting, they may only have been there for a short time. What are the old papers? Could you post a picture of them here? The NJ Death Index for 1920-1924 for Hoboken lists a Frederick Nielson dying in February 1920 (linked), but it doesn't have any other identifying information. Are the old papers you mentioned letters, or do they perhaps contain any other information? I'd love to see them.
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It's really not much to go from - it's a photocopy of the back of a photograf on which my great great grandmother wrote her family tree. And she might have mistaken the year of death - making it possible that he died in 1920. I'll have to try and ask my grandmother and her sister once again whether they know something and just underestimated the importance.
I have contacted the step grandson of Ellen's sister Bertha, and he's the one who proviced my with the photo of "the Old Garden Restaurant" with the E. Nielsen as prop... So she might have owned this restarant at some point.
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@Charlotte Noelle Champenois @X24mom X24mom @Marteena Barth
I've just got an update from Ellens sister's granddaugther which might be helpful. She wrote me that they called Ellen; Helen instead. She was divorced and she owned the restaurant either called The olde garden restaurant or The beer Garden. She was laid to rest in Fairview Cemetary in New Jersey. Her sister Bertha was laid to rest beside her. I'm hoping she can remenber the year of death.
Maybe this can help you help me...
Thank you so much for all your hard work so far.
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Excellent info! The pieces are all coming together now! Also, I wanted to say the fact that they are listed as “Nathan” instead of “Nielsen” sounds about right, the person taking the info could’ve misunderstood what they were saying or a transcriber could’ve had difficulty reading someones handwriting or most likely the person giving the info possibly had an accent that the information taker was having difficulty with and just wrote down whatever. I have ancestors who’s surname went from Shipley to Shiflett, I searched for Parents of Joseph B Shiflett for almost 20 years, only to recently find that he was born Shipley and somewhere, somehow between the 1880 census and his marriage in 1898, his name changed to Shiflett 😂
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Bethas husband was a widower when they married. He had a daughter named Mildred with his first wife
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Where did you find these? They are copies of the ones I've received from Bertha's grandson a couple of days ago.
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I will try to find more info later if I get time. I hope this is helpful🤗
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The photos are connected to an ancestry account. I posted the link
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The step granddaughter of Bertha told me that Ellen passed away in the 1950s in New Jersey - there are only 3 Ellen Nielsens in the New Jersey Death index in the 1950s. Any thoughts on how to sort out which Ellen is the right one?
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Do you have a link to the index? Was her last name definitely Nielsen when she passed? If you can’t post a link to the site can you post ss of the lists with names?
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Also, have you called the cemetery to ask for burial info? Sometimes they’ll email you the card
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