need help with these two burial records

PaulaRail1

Thank you for any help you can give me. Paula Rail

WSeelentag

Uneheliche Tochter des Matthäus Matsch, unverheirathet und der Friedrike Magdalena Lachmund, unverheirathet.

Barbare Elisabethe geborne Matsch, zweite Wittwe vom Tabakhändler Christian Hartmann.

May I ask what type of register this is - and from which place? I always appreciate that information.

Robert Seal_1

Hello @PaulaRail1,

First record:

Illegitimate daughter of Matthäus Malsch/Matsch, unmarried, and Friedrike Magdalena Lachmund, unmarried.

Second Record:

Barbare Elisabethe, née Malsch/Matsch, second widow of tobacconist Christian Hartmann.

My comment: I'm puzzled about the phrase "zweite Wittwe" which translates as: second widow. I don't see how a woman could be a man's second widow. Speculation: Maybe the scribe meant she was his second wife and his widow?

WSeelentag

"I'm puzzled about the phrase "zweite Wittwe" which translates as: second widow. I don't see how a woman could be a man's second widow. Speculation: Maybe the scribe meant she was his second wife and his widow?"

I also was not sure, but finally decided she was married twice and survived both her husbands. So "zweite" is in the sense of "doppelte".

Robert Seal_1

Danke, @WSeelentag!

PaulaRail1

Thank you all once again! Paula Rail

Robert Seal_1

You're welcome, Paula.

WSeelentag

I had discussed the issue of "zweite Witwe" with other researchers. This discussion has been summarized on https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/comment/468528/#Comment_468528 - in the Switzerland Group (my main activity) as I wanted to ask if anyone had seen this expression in Switzerland. Conclusion was, Barbare Elisabethe Malsch had been married twice, and had become a widow twice, so when she died she was a "second widow" to her second husband.

Now I would like to ask @PaulaRail1: what parish is the death entry from - and which year? Do you have any other information about her biography, e.g. was there a (known) first husband before she married Christian Hartmann?

And a question to all here: has anyone subscribed to archion and could check the marriage in Waldenburg (Württemberg) between Johann Ludwig Bertulius and Margareta Seebach on 02 May 1637 for me?

PaulaRail1

I would be happy to check in Archion for your marriage. Thank you for your info and no I do not have any further information on her. That was the first record I found on her. The parish is in Brotterode, Germany and the death record is in 1832. I will get back to you on Bertulius and Seebach. Paula Rail

WSeelentag

Thank you for the info (Brotterode 1832), Paula ... and I am looking forward to the Waldenburg record 😁.

PaulaRail1

I am sorry but I could not find any marriage record for Bertulius and Seebach. There were two sections of marriages and I checked both of them from 1635-1647. There was no one with the name of Seebach in any record I looked at. I did find this record with Mich. Spelter and Margaret Seyboth

However I did find two records for Bertulius. A baptismal record and a marriage record.

I hope this helps as you have done so much for me. Paula Rail

WSeelentag

Thank you very much for your efforts, @PaulaRail1 ... a pity that the original marriage records pre 1850 either have not survived - or just not been digitized.

I'll have to look into your info closely later.

Best regards

VartikaNain

One post has been edited to remove personally identifiable information.

WSeelentag

Which post ... one of mine?

If one of mine, I would like to know what I should avoid.