Dippel - Church Record Translation
I am again hoping for help translating a church record for Johannes Dippel (I believe). I found it in Archion.de. It is from: Kurhessen-Waldeck: Landeskirchliches Archiv Kassel > Ziegenhain > Ibra > Kirchenbuch 1774-1832 and is image 1631. The record is dated August 25, 1785. The specific entry I am interested in is:
An image of the entire page is:
Thanks in advance for your help! Regards, Mike Smiley
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This appears to be two different records of the same event with some differences between them.
The first as I see it :
Getaufte zu Ibra 1784
Aug 23: Johannes, Peter Dippel
Einwohner allhier et Ux
Anna Catharina geb
Vitzelin? Pohngen? nat.
d 22 ejusd. Hor 12 mer:
Gevatter: Johannes Heipel
Translation:
Persons baptized in Ibra 1784
Aug 23: Johannes, (son of) Peter Dippel, inhabitant here and his wife Anna Catharina, nee Vitzel (from Pohngen?), born 22 of the same (August 1784) at 12 noon. Godfather is Johannes Heipel
The second:
Getaufte zu Ibra 1785 (heading at top of page)
Aug 25: Johannes, Peter Dippel
Einwohner allhier et Ux
Anna Catharina geb
Vitzelin? Pohnchen? nat.
d 21 ejusd. Hor 10-11 nox?:
Gevatter: Johannes Heipel
Translation:
Persons baptized in Ibra 1785
Aug 25: Johannes, (son of) Peter Dippel, inhabitant here and his wife Anna Catharina, nee Vitzel (from Pohnchen?), born 21 of the same (August 1785) between 10 and 11 at night. Godfather is Johannes Heipel
Edit: The mothers maiden name may be Witzel. I started with Witzel but the first letter looks just like the "V" in Gevatter so I changed it to V. Perhaps Gevatter can also be spelled with a "w"?
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Hello Mike and Greg,
The first record is from the year 1782, and I translated it for you, Mike, earlier today as follows:
At top of page: Baptized at Ibra 1782.
August 23 [1782]: Johannes, little son of Peter Dippel, inhabitant here, and his wife Anna Catharina, née Witzelin [was baptized], born on the 22nd of the same month at the hour of 12:00 noon. Baptismal sponsor: Johannes Heipel.
In this record, the word after the mother's maiden surname in this record is: "Söhngen" = Söhnchen = little son.
In the second record from 1785, the word after the mother's maiden surname is: "Söhnchen" = little son.
Also, the baptismal sponsor in the 1785 record is: Johannes Witzel.
General comments: "ch" is sometimes represented by a "g" in earlier German records, hence:
"Söhngen" = "Söhnchen" = little son.
Mike: It's likely that the first child born in 1782 and named Johannes died prior to the male child born in 1785, and the second child born in 1785 was named in his brother's memory, a not-uncommon naming practice.
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Thank you Robert!
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You're welcome, Greg.
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You both are so awesome. Thanks so much. Sorry to mix up the records. Regards, Mike
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General comments: "ch" is sometimes represented by a "g" in earlier German records, hence:
"Söhngen" = "Söhnchen" = little son.
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This is very regional - see DFD.
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As I look at these records, it seems that there are three Johannes Dippel's. The first born in 1777, the second in 1782 and the third in 1785. It seems a bit much, but there are three Johannes' with the same parents.
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Hello Mike,
You should look for corresponding death records for the the earlier born children named Johannes.
I had a similar situation with an ancestral couple who wanted to name a son Michael. They tried three times and in each instance the child died before the age of 2 years.
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Two comments:
1) Robert is correct: it was quite common to "recycle" names when a previous child had died before. If you look at baptismal registers, you'll note that the selection of given names was rather limited (as compared to today).
2) There are occasional reports of identical given names even if the older child was still alive: https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30432
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Do you know if Archion also has death records? What are they called? Thanks!
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I'm not registered with archion, so I cannot really test. But for Ibra they only offer "Kirchenbuch" - whilst for other parishes they have "Taufen" / "Trauungen" / "Beerdigungen". I would therefore assume that death records are included in that volume. Look for character strings like Tot / Tod / Sterb / Begräbnis / Bestattung.
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Hello Mike,
Most "Kirchenbücher" have three sections: births/baptisms; deaths/burials; and marriages.
I don't have a subscription to Archion but I was able to minimally see the church registers for Ibra which are available on Archion. Each book is called a "Kirchenbuch" = church book/parish register. So each of these books should have a section for deaths/burials.
Look for section titles that include words such as: Sterberegister; Todtenbuch; Todtenregister; Begräbnisse; and other German words which relate to death and burial.
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Thank you!
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@Mike Smiley, when the various record types are in the same book, there's often a page showing in what order and, sometimes, what page numbers the records of each type are found on. The first image in the book you found your record in is such a page, and it states that the baptisms (indicated by the symbol *) for the years 1774-1832 are on pages (indicated by "S.," for "Seite") 1-167, the confirmations ("Konf") for 1774-1830 then follow (no page numbers are given), after which the marriages ("oo") for 1774-1832 are found on pages ("S.") 1-48 (i.e., the page numbering starts over later in the book) and the deaths ("+") for 1774-1832 on pages 1-116. A note then states that each section/record type ends with a handwritten name index.
The 1774-1832 death records in the book start on image 1774, and the death index starts on image 1835/1836. The "D" surnames are found on image 1837.
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