I am trying to find an 1815 or 1825 Census record for Søndre land, Oppland, Norway and am not able t
I am trying to verify which parents belong to my Mari Olsdatter born in 1807. There was one born on 20 Dec, C. 29 Dec. to Ole Hovelsen and Kirsti Olsdatter (page 88) and another christened 18 January 1807 to Ole Kristofferson and Johanne Hansdatter. I thought if I tracked the family I could possibly determine from siblings and baptismal sponsors it might help.
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The 1815 and 1825 census records were very limited in what they contained. You can read about them here:
https://www.arkivverket.no/en/find-your-ancestors/public-censuses#!#block-body-3
To quote from there:
"The censuses of 1815, 1825, 1835, 1845, and 1855 were numeric, and so did not request any information on individuals. Nevertheless, the census material in the archives left by Ministers and Town Administrations kept in the National Archives contains several lists of names. Folk og Fant by Anna Tranberg (The Norwegian institute of Local history, 1986) contains an overview of the census lists that included names of individuals."
If you use the Find Sources option at the Digitalarkivet to look for the 1815 census for Søndre land, you get this result:
Looking at a typical page, all you get is this:
No names, just numbers. Sorry for the bad news.
The only census for 1815 that has names that I have used is for Bergen. I assume some of the other large cities, like Oslo, would also have that type of census. Otherwise the only useful next census after 1801 is the 1865 census.
To determine the parents of your Mari Olsdatter, you best bet is her marriage record. It that was about 1827 or later, it should include her father's name and probably her birth residence.
Where is she in Family Tree? Looking at that might give me other suggestions for you.
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Her Family Search number is L1FJ-MGD. I am trying to verify that her parents are Ole Kristofferson and Johanne Hansdatter and not Ole Hovelsen and Kirsti Olsdatter. A son Christian born in 1831 had baptismal sponsor Ole Nordregby that I think might be the father of Mari Olsdatter of Nordregby farm. That Christening was on page 187 of Søndre Land Records. Any help is appreciated.
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I just found their marriage record and put it on documents under memories on her and his page. Let me know if you think that is the groom's father.
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I meant bride's father. I think I need a break!
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Part 1 of several!
I will admit that I only feel comfortable giving answers that seem correct to me by making sure all the foundational information for that information is correct. So I have been reviewing the information you have for Mari and her family. Boy, it's complicated and you have a lot of cleaning up and sourcing to do. The one child listed for Mari, Karen Matea Evensdatter sure had a big family. She was married several times, some of her spouses were married a couple of times, a lot of information is missing from them and their children.
You'll find it very helpful to completely fix her, her spouses and children before jumping to her grandparents. But I'll see what I can do about that anyway.
First step is finding Karen Matea in the 1875 census, which is here:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052770003032
with nine children, two of which are labeled as step children so Peder is her third husband and these two step children are hers with other husbands.
Listed here also Mari Olsdatter Kleven, born 1807 in Søndre Land and listed as Karen Mattea's mother.
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Part 2 of several.
Next step in working backwards is to say from the census who her husband was at the time and can confirm the marriage date already present by checking the parish record here:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060727070255
This shows that Karen Matea was entering her second marriage (so her first child must have been uegte.), that she was born at Faldseie, not Klevstuen, and that her father was Even Johannesson Faldseie. This marriage was at Hov Kirke, by the way. That can be handy to add to the place.
Checking her first marriage as currently shown in FamilyTree:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060727070243
This shows it is her first marriage, that her birth place is back to being Klevestuen but she was born in 1853 instead of 1855, and her father this time is listed as Even Hansen.
This is all sufficient to say that she has to be in the 1865 census in Søndre Land born about 1854 with father Even at one of two places. So to step back to that record we get to:
(and the search engine for the census records just quit working so I'll have to check this later.)
By the way, I assume you have done all this, but I haven't and this is kind of like thinking out loud. Anyway these are all sources that should be added to the family and have not been yet.
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Part 3
Since I can't check the 1865 census right now, I'll go to the confirmation record you have attached for her. (I would suggest that you add the link to the document as a source. It may not be as permanent as uploading it as a document, but it is easier to read it on the Digitalarkivet website)
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070206640262
Here we see both parents names, a full birth date and that she was born at Klevstuen.
So now we have the convincing evidence that her parents were Even Johansson and Mari Olsdatter. Since you want to know Mari's parents, we need the marriage record for those two.
We know they were married between 1825 and 1855. That 1865 census would sure be helpful because it probably would list other children.
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Part 4
Unfortunately, neither the Norwegian Archives nor Family Search have transcribed or indexed the marriage records for Søndre Land for the proper time period.
However, I see that you have already done the work but created a duplicate for Mari Olsdatter to which you attached the marriage record, which is found at:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603880080
and
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603880649
The second copy, the Ministerialbok, has been transcribed. It just looked like it hadn't been because Søndre Land did not exist at the time of their marraige. They were married in Land. You will want to correct that in the place name. The marriage took place in Fluberg Kirke.
Unfortunately, the search for that record transcription also is not working right now, but then it is about 3 am Sunday morning in Norway. The system might be down for routine maintenance.
Also, unfortunately, the record does not give any parents' names and gives current residence, not birth place.
A third unfortunate item is that Mari's death record has just a blank in the spot for her birthplace.
May I offer another suggestion to keep organized? Since the death record states she died at Kleven, you really should enter her death place as "Kleven, Søndre Land, Oppland, Norway."
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Part 5
Ah! The search engine is back.
Here is the marriage record:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000001711287
This confirms that the bride, groom, and both witnesses were all living at Narum at the time of the wedding but gives no indication of where any of them were from.
Here is the 1865 census which gives two more children:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01038072011774
It has Mari's patronymic wrong and age probably off on the estimate. Also, since they were married in 1826 and this census only lists children born in 1842, 1848, and 1851 (and these may be off a few years) they likely had many more children, some that died young and some that had moved away from home.
The transcribed Ministerialbok gives two more children who were born in 1826 and 1828:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000007203792
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000007205927
The family was living at Narum still at that time.
The next parish record, for 1831 to 1841 has not been indexed or transcribed so that will be a page by page search looking for more children for them.
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Do you think on the marriage it says Ole Kristofferson in the witness or parent space? That could be Mari's father if that is what it says.
I have put Farm names in but it seems that FS doesn't recognize them so stopped doing that but will them again.
I do have to correct some of Karin's children and father's names. You are right, she had children with 3 men and he had children with two women so it gets confusing. I really am trying to figure out the correct Mari Olsdatter for Karin's mother and have become very obsessed with this mystery.
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Part 6
Doing a search in the transcribed birth records for Land for everyone starting with Mar* born in between 1800 and 1819 gives only 35 matches.
Narrowing it to mar* ol*
gives just two Mari Olsdatters and a Marith Olsdatter, christened:
1) Mari - 22 Nov 1801, born at Skolmeneie in Ostsinni sogn, parents Ole Olsen and Ingebor Knudsdatter
2) Marith - 26 Dec 1806, born at Hoff in Hoff sogn, parents Ole Hansson and Marit Pedersdatter
3) Mari - 29 Dec 1807, born at Bergseie in Kind sogn, parents Ole Hovelsson and Kristi Olsdatter.
The first one's date is just too early. The third one you mentioned in your first post. For some reason, the other one you mentioned is not showing up i the search. I searched several ways until she finally showed up:
4) Mari - 18 Jan 1807 born at Nordbyeeie in Fluberg, parents Ole Christoffersson and Johanne Hansdatter.
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Part 7
Doing a search for all children born at Nordbye or Nordbyeeie shows that they were christened at Fluberg, Østsinni, and Nordsinni churches, which doesn't narrow things down any. You can't say the Mari at Nordbyeie is the one that ended up in Søndre Land just because she was christened in Fluberg church.
Looking at the first three children for Even and Mari, there is:
1) Karen Marthea
2) Ole
3) Kristian
so unfortunately, they are not using the traditional naming pattern used in some parts of the country.
Looking at Kristian's christening record here:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603890058
the only Ole listed is Ole Narum.
In the other book, at:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070603880041
the handwriting is worse but I'm pretty sure it just says Narum there also, not Nordregby, so I would doubt that is Mari's father.
Now, here is a question, did the other Mari you are considering ever get married? Did she even survive infancy? A quick look through the transcribed death records doesn't show any candidates for her, but you might want to look closer.
Doing a search on marriages:
Aha! There is a Mari Olsdatter born 1807 living at Bergeseie who married a Lars Henrichsen, a soldier and husmand.
It would stretch probability that your Mari just happened to move away from Bergeseie and go to Narum and get married there at the same time, roughly, as the other Mari moved to Bergeseie and got married. Also, since Lars is a soldier and tennant farmer, it is probably unlikely that he is from Berg. So the Mari who lived at Bergseie when she got married is almost certain to be the one who was born at Bergseie, that is the daughter of Ole Hovelsson and Kristi Olsdatter.
So if you maintain that the Mari born 1801 can't be your Mari because of the birth year difference and the Marith born 1806 can't be because of the name difference, that leaves only the Mari born at Nordbyeeie to Ole Christoffersson and Johanne Hansdatter as your Mari.
If this is sufficient for you, be sure to add her complete birth information with complete and historically accurate place names to her entry in Family Tree:
b. 1807, Nordbyeie, Land, Oppland, Norway
chr: 18 Jan 1807, Fluberg Kirke, Land, Oppland, Norway.
This will really help others who come to her record in Family Tree.
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No, there is definitely an "og" between the Ole and the Kristoffer, and you would always have two witnesses.
FamilySearch recognizes the farm names just fine. It's just that not many of them are in the database yet. It is perfectly acceptable and correct and recognized to have place names entered like this:
As you can see, you have a green check mark in front of "Standardized Place" that confirms this is entered correctly. People are getting really confused by the map pins. They don't mean the place is entered correctly. They just show which place will be marked on the Time Line map. Since Nordbyeeie is not in the database yet, they can only put the pin in the middle of Land on the map.
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Thank you for all your hard work on this. I really appreciate your work and knowledge!
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You're welcome! I'm glad I could help. It was a fun exercise.
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