Comments behind names of parents of Gottfried Zwygart
Will you please translate the information following the names Gottfried Zwygart's parents, Jakob Zwygart and Anna Maria Ramser. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-KQ3J-YT Image 259, child #72 on Page 177. This is a Christening record from the Heiliggeistkirche in Bern. Would he have been born in Bern and christened in Bremgarten bei Bern, Bern, Switzerland? Thank you,
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Sorry, Edna, but as mentioned in several posts and described in https://community.familysearch.org/de/discussion/92218/church-records-in-canton-bern these records (at familysearch) can be accessed (at least in Switzerland) only at Family History Centres. I can only recommend to include screenshots and give dates for the entry: only then it is reasonably possible to check records available freely (though often with inferior quality) from the Bern State Archive.
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Looks better now ;-) ... and you have their baptismal dates!
This Zwygart line will have been citizens of Kichlindach since before 1800.
If you want to continue with this line, you'd also be welcome on https://www.geneal-forum.com/: describe your present knowledge and ask if anyone has further info, e.g. on Zwygart marriages in canton Bern: there is a database covering most parishes in canton Bern, and a forum member does look-ups. Although the database is not complete yet, it can still be very useful. Also there will be other readers there, more familiar with researching in this canton than me. To be able to post you have to register (free and without obligation); English is fine on the forum ... just have a look first ;-).
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To answer your question about the language changing on FamilySearch--it's likely that something triggered the website to change from English to German. You can change the language by scrolling all the way down to the bottom of the FamilySearch page, clicking on the blue name of the language you're viewing it in (which is likely "Deutsch"), and selecting the language you actually want to view the page in. (The Community itself is only available in English, so you won't see the option listed in the Community). I hope that helps! If not, let me know and I'll see what I can figure out.
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Thanks for the reminder. When I first started using the Swiss Community for questions everything was done by people in the U.S. and the URL, etc. was the best way to do it. I will try the other. Please read on ----
Now for another problem - do hope you read this. Last week I clicked on an answer you sent -it may have been a while ago, but I can't find it in my computer. It all seems to have disappeared, but now there is a big problem. All of my records in FamilySearch are now in Deutsch! I have tried several times and in various ways to get everything back to English, but no luck. On the person's page the dates have the periods by them, it says Infant Baptism instead of Christening, and Death has something else- can't remember now what it says. When I click on recent changes everything is in German. Information I have put in is in English but nothing else. a Google box pops up where I have to choose English, but that change anything in FamilySearch. I called Salt Lake but no help there. Do you have a solution for my problem - I hope so.
I don't know how to get back to other messages we have exchanged. I haven't used the Community for a while. Thanks, Edna
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Hello Edna,
I have noticed as well that occasionally the language just changes between English and German - and often there is a mixture on the same screen (??). I have no idea, however, what's behind this - and I don't see a language option for this site. I have no background information on the site, am just a user like you. I also have had sent two technical questions to SLC months ago ... never got any response. The language changes don't bother me, though - German is my mother tongue but I have lived in the UK several years.
I don't find a search feature for the community (to look for certain keywords in the discussions), but checking https://community.familysearch.org/de/profile/comments/WSeelentag should list all my contributions ... unfortunately you'll have to scroll through these discussions to find the ones relating to you. Alternatively https://community.familysearch.org/de/profile/comments/Edna%20Walchli%20Stratford should list your contributions - and you'd have to check which are connected with answers from me.
Best regards - Wolf
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May I start a new request from this page? It is for the translation of the marriage record of Niklaus Zwygart & Magdalena Schenk. I believe the marriage took place in Bern, Bern, but the record is from her birthplace of of Langnau im Emmental & in the Heiraten Records 1813-1863. It is the first marriage in 1835. I especially need all information on his birth, parents, etc. I will try sending a copy of the records. What else do you need?
I do hope this works. Edna
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I will try this again in a different way. Will you please translate the information following the names of Gottfried Zwygart's parents, Jakob Zwygart and Anna Maria Ramser. This is a Christening record from the Schweiz, Kirchenbücher, 1277-1992 Bern Heiliggeistkirche Bern Evangelisch-Reformierte Tauf Index, Taufen 1852-1871. Would he have been born in Bern and christened in Bremgarten bei Bern, Bern, Switzerland?
Were his parents married 14 March 1857? Thank you, Edna
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Marriage 1835:
The marriage took place in Bremgarten bei Bern on 09 Jan - see right column. If this record is from the Langnau church book, I would expect it to be in the section "Auswärtige Heiraten" (or similar) - is that correct?
Groom is Niklaus Zwygart, Joh(annes)' son from Herrenschwanden (today part of Kirchlindach, parish Bremgarten bei Bern, just North of Bern itself); he was batised 20 Nov 1803.
The marriage was announced on 03 Dec and 28 Dec (1834), and they got the "Schein" (permission) on 01 Jan 1835.
Bride is Magdalena Schenk, Christ(ians)' daughter from here (i.e. Langnau), baptised 03 Oct 1813.
Both (at the time of the marriage) living in the city of Bern.
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Baptism 1864: would that be in a section "Auswärtige Taufen" (or similar)?
What is a bit puzzling: the father is mentioned as living in Lorraine (France): was the entire family living there - or was it only him at the time of baptism? All godparents were from canton Bern, indicating that the baptism also likely would be in canton Bern.
Father = Jakob Zwygart, Christen's son, citizen of Bremgarten.
Mother = Anna Maria Ramser, daughter of the late Niklaus, "Landsass" (free tenant, but no citizenship) in canton Bern.
Parents got married in Bremgarten on 14 November(!) 1857.
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Thank you so very much for your speedy answer. As a result, I spent most of yesterday in FamilySearch looking for more information and adding sources. I also found three new people. I've know for several days that there is a problem with Gottfried Zwygart - his baptism record is above. But apparently Jakob, his father, died in 1860 (I have seen those records). That was two years before Gottfried was born. I must have him in the wrong family. The following clip is of Jakob's death on 19 March 1860 and burial on 22 March 1860. It was taken from Bremgarten Toten Index 1808-1875. I can see that Magdalena Schenk is his mother. Is there anything about Niklaus or anyone else that would be helpful? I haven't found any other marriage records for his mother. This is a puzzlement for me. As for any of the above sources - none said "Auswärtige Taufen" or anything similar. I know records are kept in the actual place of the event and also in the person's community. It's great, but can cause a little confusion sometimes. Can Bremgarten - by itself - be used as a place or is it always Bremgarten bei Bern, Bern, Switzerland? When I read messages from you it changes the language in FamilySearch to Deutsch, but I've also learned that it's simple to touch a button that changes it back to English. This may be too much information. I do appreciate your help and just tagging onto this continuing message. Hope that is okay. Edna
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This Jakob is not Gottfried's father! You are looking for Jakob, son of Christen. This Jakob is the son of Niklaus, dies 19 March 1860, aged 24 years and 10 months (i.e. born about 1836) - "stumm & ledig" (dumb and unmarried). This fits the marriage of Niklaus and Magdalena Schenk in 1835 - but he's not Gottfried's father.
Regarding Bremgarten: Bremgarten bei Bern is the only Bremgarten in canton Bern - but there is a much larger Bremgarten in canton Aargau. Consequently, if one talks about Bremgarten in Switzerland, this implies usually the one in Aargau.
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I have removed Gottfried & his information from all of my records. I believe this is the correct Jakob for Gottfried's father. It is from a Toten Index that was indexed. I will attach the actual copy, then the Indexed version. I knew the parent's names were not related to me but there is much similar information.
This is now correct isn't it? I can't believe how rapidly you are able to respond to my questions. Thank you so very, very much. I will attach this to the new Jakob Zwygart and hope it helps someone else in their research.
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Gottfried Zwygart is not my ancestor which means the above Jakob Dwygart (Zwygart) is not related to me. His page, along with 3 sources is now available for his descendants to use in gaining information. I will no longer do any research on that line.
My Jakob Zwygart is the one who died at age 24. Now I need to find out if it is him or the above Jakob who was married to Anna Maria Ramser.
I am sure you will be getting more questions from me. Thank you, Edna
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Thank you so very much for the information on the death record of my Jakob Zwygart. Learning that he was unmarried solved a huge problem for me. I removed the wife and daughter attached to him. Sad to learn that he was "mute." Wonder if he was born like that.
Will you please translate everything on this Toten Index from Bremgarten. I think it will give much needed information on Niklaus Zwygart. I can see the name of his wife Magdalena Schenk.
Thanks, Edna
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What I just sent is not a death record - it was the film that was attached to this Indexed Information on the marriage of Niklaus and Magdalena. I have no idea why it would end up in the midst of Toten records. I am going to look at them once more. Here is the Marriage Index
All of this makes things very confusing. Edna
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It's Edna again - Unfortunately, the film is incorrectly named. It is all Bremgarten Heiraten records from 1752 1807. That was a marriage record of Niklaus and Magdalena. I hope it has the full name of the father of Niklaus and his mother's name. I've seen his fathers name as Joh, Johannes, or Hans, but know nothing of his mother. I am so happy to have found you or better yet, that you answered an earlier query of mine.
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Wedding Bremgarten 03 Januar 1835
Announced 07 Nov, 14 / 28 Dec
Zwigart Niklaus, Joh. (u. Elisabeth ...) S(ohn) v(om) Stadtgericht K. G. Bremgarten. Im Rappenthal (https://search.ortsnamen.ch/de/record/309015389/).
Schenk Magdalena, Christians T(ochter) von Langnau. Auf dem Spitalacker (https://search.ortsnamen.ch/de/record/309005111/). Sie get(auft) Bern 03 Oct 1813. Mutter Anna Maria Lüthi v(on) Lauperswÿl (https://search.ortsnamen.ch/de/record/309054985/).
[Column 7 Nov ...]: Sein v(on) Bern und Langnau Armatursch(ein). Er dient noch. Einzug -Geld aus Pfarramt bezahlt. Brief nach Langnau.
[The latter is related to military service. As I am not familiar with the habits in canton Bern, I recommend (again!) that you post your questions to https://www.geneal-forum.com/, where people more familiar with the region will see it: first describe your present state of knowledge, then ask this sort of question.]
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Re Confusion with digitized records on familysearch - I see two potential causes.
1) In many cases several books were combined on a single film ... and the digitized records kept that structure. If I understand it correctly, the indexing is done per film - so if a film contains baptismal, marriage and death records, you'll find a mixture of all these records in a single index ... one has to be careful not to be mislead.
2) The people doing the filming either misunderstood what records they were filming, or the information got mixed up later. I have seen quite a number of descriptions which were either incomplete or even simply wrong.
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Again, thank you so much for your help. I appreciate url's for the maps and the forum. I will try the forum during the week.
A couple of questions about the parents of Niklaus Zwygart. In my records should I write his father's name as Johann? From this marriage record it appears that his mother's name was Elisabeth. Is that correct? This is the first time I have seen her name anyplace.
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We are both tired of this family - hope this is the last time I have questions. There are two death records on the same page for Jakob. Please translate what it says after his name on both records.
I know that he died 19 March 1860 and was buried the 22 March 1860. Probably buried in Bremgarten.
Is that "stumm" (mute) at the end of each entry? Edna
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Jakob, Nicklaus(en), des Handlangers (= labourer) v(on) Bremgarten. Stumm.
Jakob, Niklausen, v(on) Bremgarten, im Altenberg, stumm.
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"In my records should I write his father's name as Johann? From this marriage record it appears that his mother's name was Elisabeth. Is that correct?"
Yes - father is definitely a Johann(es). The mother's name has bee added later in a smaller and fainter script - I am pretty sure her given name was Elisabeth, but am lost with her surname. Try to find Jakob's baptismal and/or the parents' marriage entry.
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Thank you so very much. Have a good day!
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Elisabeth's surname is Ischi. It's written more clearly in records listed below.
Note that Swiss marriage records can be recorded in up to 5 locations--the groom's place of residence, the bride's place of residence, the groom's place of citizenship, the bride's place of citizenship, and the place the marriage took place. The record lists the bride as having citizenship in Langnau, so I located the Langnau version of their 1835 marriage record. That version of the record adds that Niklaus has citizenship specifically in Herrenschwanden in Bremgarten and that he was baptized 20 November 1803. According to Ortsnamen.ch, the parish in charge of Herrenschwanden is Kirchlindach. The record also states that both are living in the Stadtgemeinde (city parish) of Bern.
I don't see Niklaus's baptism in Kirchlindach, but I found it in the parish of Bremgarten (microfilm 2005304, Bremgarten, Evangelisch-Reformierte, "Taufen, Index 1752-1810," image 135), and his mother Elisabeth's surname, Ischi, is a bit more clearly written there. The baptism record states that Niclaus Zwigart was baptized 20 Wintermonat [ November] 1803 in Münchenbuchsee [see that copy of his baptism record in the same collection but in the Münchensee Reformed parish, "Taufen 1747-1834," image 301] and that his parents are the married couple Johannes Zwigart from Herrenschwanden, Bremgarten, and Elisabeth Ischi from Aetigkofen, Aetingen.
If you have any additional questions about this family, it might be good to start a new thread, as this one has gotten quite long :)
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This is an old question and answer but I do hope you can help me now in something different.
I used the Swiss Community Research Group many, many times for help in the past and you often were the one to help me. At that time I would send the URL with Image #, page #, and position on page of the person I was seeking help on. Doing it that way on records difficult to read, you could compare penmanship on other entries in the record for help. I received great answers which I very much appreciated.
Then the program was changed and a man in Switzerland was my resource. He was unable to look at the actual record. I then sent him just a clip of the record I needed help with and he would help with translation.
Now, several months later, everything seems to have changed and I have no idea how to receive much needed help for answers to my questions.
At the moment I am trying to decided if I should merge two records of an ancestor named Anna Wälchli. The following clip will help with my decision. In what village/town did the 12 July 1816 marriage of the child's parents take place?
How and what shall I so in the future to receive help?
Thank you, Edna Walchli Stratford
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You are the one I worked with recently. I have the same question about the place the 12 July 1816 marriage of this child's parents took place.
My dilemma is on Anna Wälchli, daughter of Johannes from Wyssbach. This marriage place may help me decide if I should do a merge. I do hope one of you can help me and give me instructions for future questions. Edna Walchli Stratford
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Hello Edna,
let's start with the general issue:
"At that time I would send the URL with Image #, page #, and position on page of the person I was seeking help on. Doing it that way on records difficult to read, you could compare penmanship on other entries in the record for help. … Then the program was changed and a man in Switzerland was my resource. He was unable to look at the actual record. I then sent him just a clip of the record I needed help with and he would help with translation. … Now, several months later, everything seems to have changed and I have no idea how to receive much needed help for answers to my questions."
I don't think, anything has changed: Bern records on familysearch could/can only(!) be viewed at Family History Centres. If I was able to help in some cases, you mentioned parish and date (or I could guess it from context) - and I then viewed the pages at the Bern State Archive website: they are generally of inferior quality - sometimes good enough to read them with confidence, sometimes not.
The other person, you mention, therefore requested a file, not just a link to familysearch. I don't know how you sent the files - so I cannot comment on why this should not be possible anymore.
The problem with screenshots is occasionally an insufficient resolution, depending on the monitor size. Alternatively you can download entire pages with original resolution - and then cut out just what you need. To have the entire page is always useful: occasionally a larger section is needed to "learn" a given handwriting.
The two samples you just posted are of (just) sufficient resolution - I'll answer separately.
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Baptismal entry Jakob Flükiger 24 Feb (year?): this is not(!) a marriage entry (as the file title suggests).
Parents: Hans Ulrich Flükiger, Andresten von hier & Anna Wälchli, Johannis von Weißbach.
Copuliert zu Eriswÿl 12 Julii 1816.
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Baptismal entry Maria Flükiger 21 Decbr (year?).
Parents: Joh(ann) Ulrich Flükiger, vom Dorf, auf der Allment & Anna Wälchli, Johannis von Wÿßbach.
Copuliert zu Eriswÿl 12 Juli 1816.
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So Jakob and Maria are siblings - but … problem: I don't find the wedding entry 12 Juli 1816 in Eriswÿl.
Which parish are the two baptismal entries?
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With some guesswork (and time) I have located the baptismal entries in Rohrbach - and from there found the wedding announcements in Madiswil (the bride's parish) and Rohrbach. Whilst I still haven't found the marriage entry itself - the announcement in Rohrbach gives the couple's baptismal dates: Hans Ulrich Flükiger (today Flückiger) was baptised 15 June 1795 ... and according to the baptismal entry he died March 1865.
I have described the progress of this research on https://www.geneal-forum.com/phpbb/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=117634#p117634 and asked there, whether anyone would know the place of the actual wedding.
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Thanks for the update.
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