Index entry found but not original record
I have found the baptism index entry for Herman Francois Henoumont on 29 May, 1711 in Sprimont, Liege, Belgium. The rightmost two columns point to the original record being on page 136, #2. I tried to paste the URL here but it failed. The film is DGS #8114279, image 116. Here's the image:
I assume the next step is to look for the original record on film DGS #8182306 (to hopefully find the names of the parents, etc.). The original document is damaged and sometimes very difficult to read. However, I tried looking up all of the Henoumont entries from the index from the same time period and found none of them. It appears to me that each baptism entry has a heading for the place of residence of the family within the parish and confusingly, one of those places is Henoumont, the same as the family name.
Thanks for any help on this.
--Kurt Cowling
의견
-
It appears to me that this is an index of church records. Once you found a potential candidate of an ancestor, you can go to the orginal church record. Be aware that the civil regitration in Belgium starts around 1796. Earlier events should be searched in the Church records.
I hope this clarifies some of your questions.
0 -
You can cut/copy/paste url's, but do not keep them on the clipboard for long if possible.
If you start typing and editing tour posting to add snapshots to it, it takes a lot of time,_And the editor
sometimes invalidates the added url's _ as in session expired for example.
So i would suggest to repost the url on itself; Gilbert is probably correct that it is a church index, the timespan is too big for a 10 yrs indice.
0 -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVQ-4DT9?i=115&cat=95541
Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I need to formulate a more succinct question or questions.
I realize this is an index. It's the index of baptisms in the Sprimont, Liege, Belgium Catholic Church. The link to my image is above. It gives the name, date and a reference to page and entry in the original record.
When I go to the film which I believe will have the original record I do not find it. I believe it should be on film DGS #8182306. In fact, I don't find any of the entries for the last name I'm looking for (Henoumont).
My questions are: Do any of you have any insight into why the records found in the index are not found in the original record? Am I just missing them? Is it possible the original records suffered some damage/loss after this index was created? Is the film with the original records organized in some way that the records are elsewhere on the film?
Complicating factors: 1. The original records are obviously in bad shape. 2. Each baptism has a heading with the specific residence of the family and one of those locations is Henoumont, the same as the family name I'm looking for.
Thanks again!
0 -
I have done research in Belgian Church records in several parishes across the country, and for one parish there was an index (in the same format as the one you pasted above) but no original records. So it is possible that the original record with this baptism has been lost.
You can also find these records on the website of the State Archives of Belgium- see the FS Wiki page on Belgium Church Records (https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Belgium_Church_Records) for more details. The images they have are exact copies of the ones on FS, but are "waypointed" more precisely. Instead of baptisms, marriages and burials all together on one film with hundreds of images, the films are broken up into smaller pieces. This might help you find the record, especially if it was out of chronological order or recorded on an unexpected page.
0 -
Thanks for your reply! I did get registered at the State Archives of Belgium and eventually figured out how to use the site. They do in fact have the same index book filmed. However, the available images of the actual registers doesn't start until 1755, much later than Familysearch (which actually starts in 1671) and much later than what I need. Thanks again!
0 -
Due to an upcoming surgery tomorrow,I only have time today to for the location.
You are correct about both being a location as well as a name,after a quick query i found Henoumont as place page 36 second left entry and as name page 43 entry 3 right page(Sprimont 1665/1796 church.
The location in todays spelling and on google maps would be=>
Hénumont as a derivative of "Heneufmont" meaning new mountain.It is a very old and very small hamlet
that is dissolved away in time.
The reason that i mailed the link to your mailbox is that i cannot cut/copy paste it here as the url contains gif's.It would be edited away.
0 -
Thanks for the info. I also found a road named Henumont just to the south of the location you indicated (across the river). Perhaps I need to go through this film image by image and note anyone named Henoumont before I give up.
0 -
Using some of the names from the first doc,as a searchterm added with Sprimont, or with more names in the query;you can find more on the web, and a good explanation for the hamlet in this link.
https://gw.geneanet.org/phdg?lang=fr&n=henoumont&oc=0&p=andre
0 -
Belgium got separated from The Netherland in a recent past.Before that we where one.
Also, Sprimont was part of the first French republic for some time, and many archives are lost.
The Saint Martin church in Sprimont was looted several times,and also burned down partially at least two times.
So, in Openarchives.nl (Dutch) still a part of the cluster of the Hénoumonts of your target,still resides along with scans of affiliates.
I will drop the link in your mail,to that site,as it contains a giff, and is not allowed here(copyright issue's)
use Hénoumont as searchterm to see the 92 results. then follow the linking content.
I also found some Hénoumonts in Harze , and Verviers.If you like to have catalogues to search
0 -
Thanks for all your helpful information and links. The family you linked to on Geneanet turns out to likely be the correct family, although the person I'm looking for isn't listed as one of the children. Another tree on Geneanet has this same family and DOES HAVE the ancestor of interest as one of the children. Thanks so much for your efforts to help me!
0 -
By the way, information in the notes of these trees on Geneanet indicate that my suspicion was correct, namely that the index survived but the original parish register did not (at least not completely).
0 -
It is always possible that it still exist on some shelf,not scanned or indexed or made availiable on the web.
Assuming it is lost because not web-availiable is an assumption.so, i would recommend to keep the variables in your query,or keep them dormant for future use.
Adrie
1 -
Good point. Thanks!
0
