Any Help Appreciated! Birth & Marriage Certificates
Hi all,
I am new here and looking for assistance. I am looking for the birth and marriage certificates for my great great grandparents Stefano Gambino & Lorenza Capritti Gambino. they were believed to have married in 1906 and had there first child Rosalia in Palermo, Sicily in 1907 before leaving for New York. they had many more children was in the US. The earliest paper trail i can find for Stefano is the 1910 US Census. I found birth recordings for all Stefano's Siblings and Lorenza but not Stefano. they were all found in the same Comune. I also have a family certificate from the Comune of Palermo for Stefano's brother Sebastiano which I thought could be useful. I will put links below. I can provide further possibly useful info if needed. Thank you for any help you can provide as this is special and important to my family and I.
Thank in advance,
John
Sebastiano Birth recording and other siblings in same book: (I would think since Stefano's older siblings and younger siblings are in the same book he should be there)
Lorenza Birth recording:
Sebastiano's family certificate from Comune of Palermo:
Name: Stefano Gambino
Birthdate: April 29, 1883
Birthplace: Palermo, Sicily, Italy
Parents: Antonino Gambino & Rosalia Vergine
Date of death: August 30, 1958
Location of death: Brooklyn, NY
Name: Lorenza Gambino
Birthdate: January 24, 1889
Birthplace: Palermo, Sicily, Italy
Parents: Vincenzo Capritti & Giuseppa Palmieri
Date of death: September 19, 1972
Location of death: Brooklyn, NY
Departure Port: Palermo, Italy
Arrival date:August 20, 1907
Ship Name: Campania
Arrival Port: New York, New York, USA
(I listed Rosalia's info since she was born in Palermo)
Name: Rosalia Gambino
Birthdate: January 20, 1907
Birthplace: Palermo, Sicily, Italy
Parents: Stefano Gambino & Lorenza Gambino
Date of Death: September 22, 1999
Location of Death: New Jersey
Arrival Date: August 20, 1907
Ship name: Campania
Arrival Port: New York, New York, USA
答え
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The online records indexes for Palermo end in 1895 for marriages, so finding Stefano + Lorenza's marriage record will be impossible. You would need to request a search and marriage certificate from the Comune directly. I'd certainly recommend doing so because you do want an independent Italian source for your ancestor's parents' names. (I presume you got these parents' names from their American records).
I took a quick look and could not find Stefano's birth either. Evidently, it was either missed during the indexing process or mistranscribed somewhere else. Nonetheless, since you have an exact birth date, there's a chance that maybe the Comune could find it for you. However, I imagine the Comune staff relies on the exact same index and so would come back to you with no match! You would have to tell them to manually check the books around that date, or of course wait patiently for FamilySearch to one day digitize the original records themselves so that you can do a page-by-page study!
Now, with the parents' names confirmed beyond doubt, ideally with their Italian marriage record, you don't technically need Stefano's birth to continue with your genealogy. You can proceed immediately to studying his parents' marriage, births, etc...
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Thank you @joseph99929
The reason I need the birth and marriage certificates for Stefano and Lorenza is because I am trying to obtain dual citizenship. So it is important to find there records. Maybe if I research his parents more it will help to provide more information on Stefano’s records whereabouts.
Do you think if I can find information about where siblings were married, making it possible they were married at the same church. That the church would have copies of birth certificates?
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You might try browsing the unindexed historical records here on FamilySearch. Here is a link to the page to get started: https://www.familysearch.org/records/images/
Good luck to you.
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For citizenship purposes, you will of course need physical copies of actual certificates from the comune. Now, since you have Lorenza's birth in the index linked in your original post, and could use that to request a certificate from the comune of Palermo.
Stefano is another story.
Church records are a parallel set of vital records. If you know what parish church in Palermo this family all went and married, it's very likely that your Stefano was baptized there too, proving the birthdate. Church records from this era are not online and can only be consulted in person or by email (if the priest is cooperative). That said, I don't believe church records would be acceptable for citizenship purposes, though exceptions may be made when the civil record is lost or missing.
I thought of a simpler idea for you. You should instead contact the Archivio di Stato di Palermo and request a search of military records (either the draft list - liste di leva, or the service record - foglio matricolare) for Stefano Gambino son of Antonino and Rosalia Vergine, born in Palermo on 29/04/1883. See: https://www.saassipa.beniculturali.it/servizi-al-pubblico/ricerche/ Military records give the birthdate, birthplace, and parents' names. I again don't believe a military record can substitute for a civil record for citizenship purposes, though exceptions might be possible if the original civil records are lost. However, if the military record reveals your information was wrong, it would lead you immediately to the correct place for the birth record, or if your information is proved correct, it would give you something to stick in the face of the comune of Palermo if they refuse or are unable to find your Stefano's birth record.
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I appreciate your suggestions @joseph99929
This is quite an endeavor and frustrating because I only need documents on one person and I know most of the information…I just need the documents.
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Thank you @Christine Barbetta
I have begun exploring the unindexed.
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When contacting Archivio di Stato di Palermo, does the email need to be written in Italian?
And is that public information for them to give to me by just asking?
Thx
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Yes, you would want to communicate with them in Italian. Google Translate is perfectly acceptable though. They get research requests from overseas all the time and will surely be understanding if the translation doesn't come across perfectly.
See https://www.saassipa.beniculturali.it/servizi-al-pubblico/ricerche/ subheading "INFORMAZIONI E RICERCHE SU DOCUMENTAZIONE ANAGRAFICA E MILITARE" for details.
According to their website, for military record requests, they have a form to fill out with the information you know and send to them along with a copy of your photo ID. I'd recommend also writing a brief message specifying you're looking for military records (liste di leva e foglio matricolare) specifically and that you are of course very appreciative of their service. They ought to get back to you within a couple of weeks with the result. There is no fee if they do not find anything, but if they find something, you will have to pay a few euro for them to email you the photos of the records.
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@joseph99929 Thank you!
Since I found where Lorenza Capritti is indexed (also where Stefano Gambino should presumably be) would her information be of any help at all to find the marriage license? or anything at all that may lead to her husband?
Trying to think of every angle...
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Any marriage record between Stefano and Lorenza will be with the Comune of Palermo not the Archivio di Stato. Only the Comune can help you with that. The Comune is an active government body, unlike the Archives, and so they're not really open to researchers. That said, since this is for legal purposes, if they refuse to help, it is possible to hire a proper document retrieval service in Italy that specializes in citizenship.
If you get the marriage record, it will be helpful, because marriage records give the parents, the birthplace, and the age of the spouses. With the marriage record between Stefano and Lorenza, you'll be able to either confirm and disprove that he was born in Palermo city 1883.
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