Church books of St Catherine Church German St Petersburg
Hello, does anyone know if church books are available somewhere for Catherine Church German St Petersburg, I would need around 1895 forward marriages and then around 1904 to 1906 birth records. I talked to my russian 4th cousin and he said that only 1 book is in spbarchives.
"There is only one metric book, and there are only 42 sheets in it, https://spbarchives.ru/infres/-/archive/cgia/1010/1/261 TsGIA SPb. Fund 1010. Inventory 1. Case 261 01.01.1901–31.12.1907 Number of sheets: 42"
I found there one relatives death information. I would also like to know if there is possbility to ask these records or make stydy request from church or that archive and is there some year limitation for publishing data for people? In Finland we have I think 100 years limit for data which is available freely.
コメント
-
Hello,
as far as I understand if the only book listed in the archive is the 1901-1907 one (I can see one more there but it's for early 18th century) then others simply do not exist. Anything that churches had would have been moved to state archives in Soviet times, if it's not there - it's lost. There shouldn't be any laws limiting access to records from 120 years ago unless some of them are marked as secret. I don't think any metric records were ever marked as secret.
Some more information can be available if your relatives served the army, state or you know specific years and names for their employers or education. I don't think church or the archive will do the research for you, they answer specific queries. There are people on forums who offer such services, not sure if they can be trusted. I am still considering this option for my own queries.
You may also want to check http://pamyat-naroda.ru/ for ww2 info, it is quite comprehensive and has a lot of info on people born in 1900-1910s provided they were still in Russia by 1941.
thanks,
Igor.
1 -
I have one RGVIA document (military archive) ordered to me, that is where I found that Karl August had wife and childrens. Yep those church records are maybe destroyed in revolution. I found one index book , where was death info for one of my relatives death in 1905 in St Petersburgh.
I think now only way is to find other sources or if some military or other archive has more information of this person. I dont know if there exists other sources like newspaper archives, address boks, grave data or something? As they are german origin family they have maybe suffered in revolution also...
---------------------------
this is the information I found from rgvia, and which lead me to find more information of this family.
Ф.1304,Оп.8,Д.491, Doctor serving in the Caucasian Military District: RGVIA (Moscow) f.1304 op.8 d.491 Fon-Wiesen Karl
Karl August von Wiesen 05 november 1878 St Petersburg, wife and 2 childrens (daughters).
But there was no name of wife or any other details of childrens but their ages, so I calculated they are born around 1904 and 1906. There is maybe possibility that they have still living descendant in St Petersburg.
same person in amburger data https://amburger.ios-regensburg.de/index.php?id=63446&mode=1
0 -
Hello,
comment won't post, probably too long, trying to shorten it
with a last name like that your problem is probably quite different from the usual family search, instead of too little information on relatives there's going to be too many of them and the biggest problem is probably figuring out the relations between various von Wiesens.
For me a major issue is getting the writer, Denis Fonvizin out of the way :)
The spelling is also quite a problem, could be anything from фон Визен, фон Висин, фон Виссин, Фон-Визин, Фонвизин, фон Висинов, Фанвизин, Фонвисин and possibly more than that.
I see you were directed to RGIA already in vgd forum, people there would probably be more helpful than me and suggested most of the places where you can look things up in general.
I've googled for a couple of hours and found the following:
First of course
http://uni-persona.srcc.msu.ru/students/stud_1840-1901/cards54.html
Here you can see that Karl August was a son of noble (kollezhskiy assesor), studied in Moscow Unversity, Medical faculty, 1899-1901. He was previosuly educated in Vladimir gubernia.
MSU definitely have their own archives, worth querying the details there, they would probably have his personal file with more detail on family. You have the details on Hermann he is a son of, right? I couldn't see any.
Фамилия: фон-Визен
Учебный год 1900-01
Факультет мед.
Курс 3
Фамилия фон-Визен
Имя Карл-Август
Отчество Германович
Вероисповедание Лют.
Звание с. Кол. Асс.
Год рождения 1878
Место рождения С.-Петерб.
Место предварительного воспитания Владим. Г.
Год поступления 1899
Book of all medics from 1914 lists this:
1914 Визенъ (фонъ) Карлъ Герм. 78 Л. 904. (Хир.) н. с. Мл. вр. 82 пѣх. п. Грозный, Терск.
meaning he was a part of 82-го пехотного Дагестанского Его Императорского Высочества Великого Князя Николая Михайловича полка stationed in Grozny, Terskiy uezd then.
page 40 gives what I assume is the same result you got from RGVIA? It suggests 1877 as birth year though. Also gives some handwritten notes on his assignments to other military divisions.
probably lists his brother Woldemar Hermann
again born in SPb, son of kollezhskiy assesor, graduated from Kharkiv univesity and joined Kharkiv Technical Instutute
Фон-Визен Вольдемар Герман Германович
born 1880
I believe this is his brother since they are both "Germanovich" (son of Hermann), both sons of "kollezhskiy assesor" and born 3 years apart in St Petersburg. May be wrong though.
thanks,
Igor.
0 -
Hello, thanks for the information
Karl Augusts father is Herman Woldemar von Wiesen b 1850,
I have noticed that other Herman 1880 too, but I dont know yet where he locates in familytree, he could maybe be brother of Karl August. BUt I didnt find him in church books yet. Karl August is found from St Catherine German book, actually I find him when I was searching this other Herman born in 1880.
And yes the spelling is also quite a problem, could be anything from фон Визен, фон Висин, фон Виссин, Фон-Визин, Фонвизин, фон Висинов, Фанвизин, Фонвисин and possibly more than that. Usually Fonvizin is written maybe all together Фанвизин and von Wiesen as Фон-Визин or Фон Визин, but you cant count on this. This soviet painter Artur Fonvizin has changed his name much more later than "original" Fonvizins. This Arthur is same family as von Wiesen brother of that Karl August, according to my studies he is same family and related to me via my mother who is von Wiesen.
Yes I have long thread in vgd.ru forum about my studies, but is good to try get help from other forums aswell, this is quite hard for me because I cant speak russian language at all. Need to do all via google translate. I have some contacts also who is helping me with various translations etc. I have this whole tree made in geni.com
0 -
Finally I found the other Herman, hes brother of Karl
"Россия, дубликаты Лютеранских метрических книг, 1833-1885," database with images, FamilySearch
: 21 May 2014), St. Petersburg > St. Petersburg > St. Petersburg
(St. Catharina I Church, German): St. Petersburg > 1881: Births,
marriages, deaths ( 828-14/248) > image 23 of 45; Russland
Historischen Staatsarchiv, St. Petersburg (Konsistorium Petersburg.
Russian State Historical Archive), St. Petersburg.
0 -
Some other assorted results, mostly from "Фонъ-Визенъ" query in google. I assume you already have these, I didn't go through your entire topic in vgd.ru to check to be honest.
book Пятидесятилетие Санкт-Петербургской Ларинской гимназии 1836-1886 printed in 1886 lists
фон Визен, Владимир-Герман 1860
фон Визен, Николай 1860-65
фон Визен, Эдельгард 1856-61
also
Выпуск 1870 года
фон-Визин Владимир "Окончил курс в Лесном институте"
Again checking to see if Larin Gymnasium archives are in SPb still somewhere may be useful.
Forester in Kostroma region, Kologriv uezd(Г. Кологривъ съ уѣздомъ.) in 1907
Шартановскаго лѣсн. — н. св. В. К. Фонъ-Визенъ
https://archive.org/stream/CommemorativeBooksYaroslavlGubernia/1912._____1912__djvu.txt
Mologskiy uezd, Yaroslavl gubernia
has a forester in 1912 -
Надорный советник Влад. Карл. фонъ-Визенъ.
i.e. Владимир Карлович (son of Karl), but I assume it's different line as they should be about the same ago as Karl August or older. Maybe it's the same Vladimir that finished the Larin gymnasium in 1870 and joined the Forestry institute. Then they may have received their надворный советник nobility title for 25 years of service to state.
0 -
Also RGIA has a bunch of info on on Wiesen (without the fon) who was a doctor for SPb Academy of arts until he died in 1855
https://rgia.su/object/4218747
Академия художеств Министерства императорского двора. 1852 г. По отношению Лифляндской казенной палаты о приписке детей фельдшера Академии Визена в податное сословие
https://rgia.su/object/4219285
Академия художеств Министерства императорского двора. 1854 г. По просьбе фельдшера Визена о выдаче жене его вида для отдельного от него жительство
https://rgia.su/object/4219515
Академия художеств Министерства императорского двора. 1855 г. О смерти фельдшера Визена и об определении в Академию фельдшера Шуслера
https://rgia.su/object/4219969
Академия художеств Министерства императорского двора. 1857 г. По прошению вдовы фельдшера Визена о выдаче ей с детьми вида для жительства
0 -
thanks, I have lots of these documents already. But Ill check these thru if someting new.
0 -
I also agree on relation to Arthur Fonvizin, apart from generally available info on his father being the forester, named Woldemar and the fact he was born in Riga, I also found a book by his son and family https://issuu.com/filippov/docs/binder1 that among other things mentions a story of "Arthur's grandma left with three kids after sudden death of her husband, pleaded with grand duchess for help and was given a midwife job and taught the profession to Arthur's mother". No names there, but matches your tree well.
Also a possible bit of info on Vladimir Vladimirovich, son of Vladimir Nikolaevich. Apparently he was working for mechanisation state company and made a suggestion on improving a belt conveyor in early 1930s. There is his personal file in РГАЭ (economics archive)
http://opisi.rgae.ru/scripts/uis/rgae_any.php?base=mysql:rgae&list=171640&idObj=9647942
ПЕРЕЧЕНЬ ФОНДОВ РГАЭ
Промышленность
Машиностроение и металлообработка
Строительно-дорожное и коммунальное машиностроение
ф.7303. ГОСУДАРСТВЕННЫЙ ПРОМЫШЛЕННЫЙ ТРЕСТ ПО ПРОЕКТИРОВАНИЮ, ПРОИЗВОДСТВУ И ЭКСПЛУАТАЦИИ СТРОИТЕЛЬНЫХ МАШИН И ПО МЕХАНИЗАЦИИ ПРОИЗВОДСТВА СТРОИТЕЛЬНЫХ РАБОТ (СТРОЙМЕХАНИЗАЦИЯ) ВСНХ СССР
оп.2. Личный состав. 1929-1931 гг.
"Личное дело Фон-Визена Владимира Владимировича"
http://opisi.rgae.ru/scripts/uis/rgae_any.php?base=mysql:rgae&list=171640&idObj=9726991
оп.3. Бриз. 1930-1931 гг.
Предложение Фон-Визена "Ленточный транспортер"
1 -
Okay, I havent found yet Arthur Fonvizin original birth church books, if there is such in Riga, yesterday I tried to find them again, went all books thru in raduraksti.arhivi.lv.
But the name and parents and birth day from St Catharine books matches the Arhur Fonvizin. Weird thing is that he changed his name to Fonvizin, all earlier Fonvizins changed their names in 1700s.
I have found this info of Arhur from internet , "In addition to him, the family has an older brother and sister. Soon after the birth of their youngest son, the family moved to St. Petersburg." but Im not sure of this info.... I tried also to order his records from rgali.ru Russian state archive of literature, but the data isnt available yet, due to privacy things.
this one f. 2943 op. 4 units xp. 745 Personal file of Artur Vladimirovich Fonvizin, b. 1882 - s. 1973. Graphics
Now I have that Arthur, Woldemar Herman and Karl August as siblings, and dead born child , that dead born children is maybe mistake of myheritage because the gap between childrens aree to narrow., and I dont find this information from chuch books. asked myheritages source but they didnt know or tell it.
thanks for your informations, I have to check all these.
0