Is it possible for someone else to complete temple work for someone you have reserved without your k
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@mthompsonjardine1 mthompsonjardine1
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The simple answer to you question is, 'Yes'.
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But, the matter is NOT so simple and can be complicated.
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There are a number of way that the "Temple" Work may be "Completed", even though you have "Reserved" the Work (and, not shared or given the "Cards" with anyone), WITHOUT your knowledge or consent.
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For starters; and, in not any particular order ...
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This can happen in the following circumstances/situations:
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• If the Work was originally "Reserved" by another Member User/Patron who "Printed" the "Card"; but, held off on doing the Work (for whatever reason); and, decided to do the Work at a later 'Date' - Currently, "Cards" that have been previously "Printed" DO NOT "Expire" - ONLY the "Reservations" EXPIRE.
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• If the individual/person was "Merged"/"Combined" with another individual/person; and, the Work for the other individual/person was ALREADY done; or, "Reserved" by another Member User/Patron, who "Reserved" the Work BEFORE you did.
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• If the individual/person was in your "Temple" List for OVER 2 Years; and, you have not undertaken the Work, the "Reservation" is AUTOMATICALLY "Released"; and, that is despite the fact that you have "Printed" the "Card". Now, once such a 2 Year Reservation is "Released"; then, the Work is AUTOMATICALLY "Share[d] with the Temple Systems"; and, made AVAILABLE for any Member User/Patron to "Request".
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• Of course, there is the matter of a 'Support' Case being raised by another Member User/Patron; and, if deemed appropriate by "Data Administration" of "FamilySearch", a "Reservation" can be TAKEN OFF you and given to the other Member User/Patron. A particular reason for such action is usually that the other Member User/Patron has a CLOSER Relationship to the Deceased individual/person than yo do.
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Those are some of the main ones that I can think of off the top of my head.
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As I said, the matter is not so simple and can be complicated
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I know that this does not help; but, I hope is gives you some perspective and understanding.
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Brett
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Unfortunately, yes. It's very frustrating and gets me quite upset when I'm working on a particular line and have done all the work and am ready to complete it. However, I should be grateful as it allows me to do someone else. I need to take the higher road. It's been made possible by the new ordinances ready button. It's why I now try to double check the names I take through the temple, before I take them there.
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This is good to know!
Can you clarify the reservation part?
Are you saying someone else can researve and print an ordinance card for the same person I have already researved?
Does this apply to ordinance cards printed?
If yes to both, we need to let more people know!
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Yes, I have reserved names, the entire ordinance list. My grandchildren have done the first two ordinances. I've done the initiatories and then someone swoops in and does the endowments two months later. This is all within the two year period and it's been really surprising. My husband and I are temple workers so we have been extra careful now because it is very easy to get all the ordinances done except for endowments. We rarely get that opportunity so when we get that chance, we have to make sure no one else has already done it on our reserved names.
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@ShellyR Leavitt1
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Shelly
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If you, read; and, understood, my 'Answer' above; then, again:
(1) The simple answer to you question is, 'Yes'.
(2) But, the matter is NOT so simple and can be complicated.
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There are a number of way that the "Temple" Work may be "Completed", even though you have "Reserved" the Work (and, not shared or given the "Cards" with anyone), WITHOUT your knowledge or consent; as, detailed above.
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And, ALL "Temple and Family History, Consultants" (ie. both, Stake; and, Ward/Branch) DEFINITELY "Need" to let Members of their respective, Stakes; or, Wards/Branchs, know.
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That is part of their 'Calling'.
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Of course, even, just as Members, it does not hurt; and, would help, to past on this information to other Members that we have contact with, PROVIDED that you, are fully aware of; and, understand, the situation yourself - otherwise, leave that up to the "Temple and Family History, Consultants" (ie. both, Stake; and, Ward/Branch).
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Brett
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Merging duplicates, which definitely should be done, causes part of that.
Two people enter someone's data, each entering something slightly different (of course based on what they know). They reserve ordinances.
Time passes - even while actively pursuing completion of the ordinances. 2 slightly different records for the same person are floating out there.
Someone else, or one of these first 2, sees that there are duplicates, knows they are same person and merges them. As soon as the merge takes place, any previous temple work performed by anyone in the past pops in.
It's not malicious. It's what checking for duplicates and merging is for, preventing duplication of performing the same ordinances repeatedly.
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Although there are some possible ways that others might do ordinance work (@Brett . has made a helpful post listing several ways it might happen) for persons in your reservation list, it will NOT simply happen because of the Ordinances Ready feature. That feature will not give someone unexpired reservations that belong to someone else. This could only happen if the reservations expired, or there were merges or unmerges or some of the other situations that Brett detailed.
Note, however, that if you received ordinances via the Ordinances Ready feature, those reservations expire in 90 days, not in 2 years. If you're expecting those to last 2 years, you might well be surprised that they disappear from your reservation list much sooner than you expected.
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Brother Brown, that's not completely true, it has given my reserved names to others many times, much to my dismay. I have them reserved for two years, so there is definitely a glitch in the system. Unless you have had this happen to you, you won't know it is happening. This is not always happening with match/merge either. In fact, it has only happened twice with my our names that way. It has happened with about 30 of our names so far however since the Ordinances Ready feature has come out. If you do not keep a detailed track of your family names, you might not realize it is happening. As my husband and I check our names every two weeks-since it takes us two and a half hours to go to the temple-we track our names closely. It is frustrating, but at the same time, I have to look at it as, at least the work got done. Yes, the Ordinances Ready feature reservations are only good for 90 days-this is true.
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@Sharon Ormsby
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Sharon
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These individuals/persons that you have "Reserved" and held onto for a period (ie. up to 2 Years), did you/have you "Share[d] (them) with the Temple System"?
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Or, are they just "Reserved" and held, by you; and, NOT, "Share[d] with the Temple System"!?
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Just curious.
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Brett
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No, they haven't been the shared ones. I've been shocked that the shared ones haven't been done at all. There the ones that should be in there. I'd love for them to be there.
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Is this why I get emails indicating that work has been completed on my temple reserves list - which I have not done?
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Great job in explaining the possibilities-you covered them all!!!
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@HeiseltMelissaJean1 HeiseltMelissaJean1
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If you are talking about 'Messages' in the "Temple" Category of "User Messaging" in "FamilySearch"; and, NOT, "E-mails" (as they are different) ...
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Then ...
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If you have "Share[d] with the Temple System"; then, the 'Answer' is a definite 'Yes'.
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Whereas ...
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If you have NOT "Share[d] with the Temple System", in other words they are just sitting in YOUR "Temple" File List, as "Reserved"; then, the 'Answer' is 'Most likely'.
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I have not come across the latter situation; but, surmise that if any of the circumstances that I list in a previous answer/response (above) has occurred; then, possibly they would.
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Brett
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CFMills
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'Thank You'.
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I was not certain if I had missed any particular scenario - there always seems to be something one misses.
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Brett
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@Sharon Ormsby
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You need to check the "ChangeLog" for the individuals/persons, that may give you some idea as to what has happened.
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But, I would definitely suggest that one of the following circumstances/situations occurred:
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• If the Work was originally "Reserved" by another Member User/Patron who "Printed" the "Card"; but, held off on doing the Work (for whatever reason); and, decided to do the Work at a later 'Date' - Currently, "Cards" that have been previously "Printed" DO NOT "Expire" - ONLY the "Reservations" EXPIRE.
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• If the individual/person was "Merged"/"Combined" with another individual/person; and, the Work for the other individual/person was ALREADY done; or, "Reserved" by another Member User/Patron, who "Reserved" the Work BEFORE you did.
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• If the individual/person was in your "Temple" List for OVER 2 Years; and, you have not undertaken the Work, the "Reservation" is AUTOMATICALLY "Released"; and, that is despite the fact that you have "Printed" the "Card". Now, once such a 2 Year Reservation is "Released"; then, the Work is AUTOMATICALLY "Share[d] with the Temple Systems"; and, made AVAILABLE for any Member User/Patron to "Request".
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• Of course, there is the matter of a 'Support' Case being raised by another Member User/Patron; and, if deemed appropriate by "Data Administration" of "FamilySearch", a "Reservation" can be TAKEN OFF you and given to the other Member User/Patron. A particular reason for such action is usually that the other Member User/Patron has a CLOSER Relationship to the Deceased individual/person than yo do.
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Just my thoughts.
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Brett
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where do you find changelog? I looked for it but don't find it.
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On the persons page look to the right-side, see where it says Latest Changes(its below the search records section and above the tools section) and then go down to where it says show all and then click on it. You will see all the changes that have been made for that person
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Well, yes, of course, I've done that and nothing shows up there. That's why the Brother for familysearch needs my individual names. Thanks anyway. Thought you meant on the main list of reservations of names or something. Sorry, we've had a son in a major car wreck this week, a mom with dementia and some other things. Really rattled right now, but all will be well. Have to go through them all, hoping I marked which is which. lol
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Yes! Those help me keep on top of mine.
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I have been getting odd messages saying someone I had reserved had the temple work done. I stop at the desk at the temple where I have left some cards in the "stake drawers" and they can´t find a card. I look at the ordinances and find that they were done at a temple no where near me. I recognize that it could be a merge situation, but if people are being merged that have been reserved, the reservation should follow the through the merge. I guess if two people who are duplicates have both been reserved then there must be some way of prioritizing who gets to keep the reservation. It would be nice to know what is really going on in these cases.
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@Rasmussensuem Rasmussensuem
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The "System" ALREADY does prioritize who gets to keep the "Reservation" - it the Member User/Patron who "Reserved" the Work FIRST.
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Of course, if the OTHER Member User/Patron has a Card that is "Printed"; and, gets the Work done FIRST, it DOES NOT matter WHO "Reserved" the Work FIRST - First in Best Dressed!
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And, that is despite the fact that you may have a Card that is "Printed" too.
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Brett
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If the individual/person was in your "Temple" List for OVER 2 Years; and, you have not undertaken the Work, the "Reservation" is AUTOMATICALLY "Released"; and, that is despite the fact that you have "Printed" the "Card". Now, once such a 2 Year Reservation is "Released"; then, the Work is AUTOMATICALLY "Share[d] with the Temple Systems"; and, made AVAILABLE for any Member User/Patron to "Request".
THIS HAPPENED TO ME! Arrgh.
I think that FamilySearch is now sending you notifications when someone has been in your "Temple" list for over 2 years. I have even received a warning that that time is approaching. There is a place in FamilySearch where you can see this warning.
If a person you have reserved is close to being "expired", you can "unreserve" them (be sure to write the PID number down), then go back to their page and "Reserve" them again.
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That is Exactly what has happened to me. If you have the name save it. Send the name to Alan E. Brown at community support@familysearch.org. Tell him Sharon sent you. I have to search through my names to see which of mine it has applied to. Thanks!
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He said he would follow through and see why these names are getting unreserved and reserved by other people BEFORE the two year limit is up since they aren't supposed to be released at all.
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I'm happy to follow up on these, but I can only do that if you can supply me at least one person ID and the ordinance where you are sure the person/ordinance was on your reserved list, was not shared with the temple, had not expired, but was completed by someone else.
You can send me a direct message by clicking on my name.
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Copying this to the @Temple Work and My Family group.
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